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The home recording thread


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#1186 Rocquero

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

i hard pan when i have 2 guitar tracks.

 

monaural people are just out of luck.


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#1187 cetera

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

yea, like i don't really wanna hear a high hat banging away all the way off to the side, all lonely

 

i use emotion mixing. a rhythm guitar track can get hard panned because it doesn't have feelings.


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#1188 travis

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

I think LCR is a good starting point. For example - two tracks of heavy guitars go 100% L and R, then you play around with them. Do they sound better at 75%? 50%? Worse? How does it sound on different systems? Your monitors? Headphones? Your car? Try it, and use your ears.

Obviously there's different schools of thought with drums, but I like to keep it mostly up the middle, because truth be told - unless you're sitting on the throne actually playing a kit, you're hearing it in mono. It's not like the floor toms are on one side of the room and the crash cymbal is on the other. Plus, you gotta take into consideration that the kick and snare are generally some of the most important things to hear in most genres, so I like to start with everything centered and then maybe throw the toms or ride off to a side. If it sounds better.

But maybe I'm just rambling. This is a helpful article on the topic from someone who actually knows what they're talking about - http://www.moultonla...antom_image/P0/

On a side note - at work the other night, I was listening to the first Minibosses album (pre-brass) on headphones all the way through for the first time in years. There's some weird panning stuff happening with the drums that I never noticed before. Can't recall which track(s) off the top of my head, but it's one of those things I never would have noticed had I not started getting into audio engineering.


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#1189 M-H

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

Yeah, rhythms just about always hard left/right. I like to use 95 or 98% left/right so there's the tiniest bit of bleed into the other speaker. Don't ask me why, I have no idea. I just like it. Leads are usually up the center, but if I had two, I like to pan them a bit. Rarely hard-pan unless it's for effect. 

 

Drums... I just love a good tom fill that travels the stereo field, but I try not to make it SUPER wide. I think Iron Maiden instilled this into me (Where Eagles Dare, anybody?). It's just more interesting to my ears, but can be distracting for some types of metal. When everything is super dry and heavy I think it's cool to have everything up the middle. Maybe not the crashes and stuff, but you know. Like you said. Do what sounds good. 

 

My car stereo always tells me useful info. If my cymbals are too loud, it's REALLY fucking annoying in my car. It's not even a high-end system or anything. Cheap Blaupunkt front speakers and a $40 head unit with an Aux input, and some Infinity speakers from the '90s that I found in my dad's house in the rear. 


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#1190 Josiah Tobin

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

Drum-wise, There's no real reason to not pan your overheads hard left and hard right -- it just opens it up so much, it's like night and day. It only makes it sound that much more real and lively. Completely separate animal from panning separate tracks of guitar, since the left and right overheads are elements of the same recording (speaking about recording a real kit here as most drum VSTs I've used already have the overheads panned by default -- only way to create any decent stereo image with drums). As far as panning toms etc. though, I keep it at maybe 30% max, if at all.

 

I used to hard-pan my guitars L&R when double-tracking, but now it's more like 40-50% left and right at most -- more often, closer to 30-35%. I didn't like the way the guitar completely vanishes as soon as you sum to mono with hard panning (I know, I shouldn't worry about that, but hey, I do), and if I really want the ridiculous width, I might track two more takes at a lower volume with a different sound and hard pan those over top. For me, 100% left or right is for embellishment, ambience etc. only. I know lots of people feel differently, though.


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#1191 pingosimon

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

As far as I can tell, the two Ghost albums use LCR panning.


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#1192 Ailsean

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:39 AM

I was gonna link that article Travis linked. You guys should definitely read that thing down and really let it soak in. Basically, the pan pots are WAY less useful than most people assume, at least for panning mono tracks around :)

 

When you have multiple recordings of the same source (e.g. drum overheads or a close mic & room mic on a guitar), panning can actually accomplish something. But to create a really expansive, three-dimensional sound, you also want to use delay or other time-shifting to make the signal come in later on one side.


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#1193 travis

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:48 PM

When you have multiple recordings of the same source (e.g. drum overheads or a close mic & room mic on a guitar), panning can actually accomplish something. But to create a really expansive, three-dimensional sound, you also want to use delay or other time-shifting to make the signal come in later on one side.


Ibbiaz just put together a very informative video on this very topic. The example at 4:58 especially helps illustrate this concept.


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#1194 munzadeth

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:27 PM

thats too much insanity for a tone you could get by miking a peavy practice amp

 

 

trolololol

 

Though I think you were being a bit facetious with that, I know there is a huge element of truth to that.  I'm wondering if you or anyone else with experience could elaborate on that a little?

 

Every home recording I've ever attempted has been DI with amp sims...  mainly because I can record quietly in the middle of the night and because the only 'nice' amps i've ever owned have been loud/big amps meant for playing live.

 

I'm highly intrigued by this notion of miking a nice 'practice' amp... one that can 'open up' at lower volumes so that you can record a nice tone without pissing off your neighbors.

 

Stemage, for instance has one of my favorite guitar tones I've heard, and I read on the MM forum a while back that he uses a peavey 1x15 blues amp.  What I can't figure out is how he gets his distortion.  Pedals?

 

I'd be very interested to hear some of your guys' experiences with mic-ing low volume practice amps. B)


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#1195 Rize

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:00 PM

I mike a 1x12 marshall DSL... 400? 450? 600?  can't remember the number.  I was hoping it wouldn't be much different than miking one of the twelves on a half-stack... while that's not the case, I still get some cool tone out of it though I'd say my tone still needs a lot of work.  mike placement is a bitch.

 

it's still pretty loud to get good tone though.  not calling the cops loud, but possibly beating on the walls loud (I live in an apartment).  though so far so good.  I've recently done some DI/amp-sim stuff because it's just so much less stressful when I don't feel like everyone wants to kill me


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#1196 Shoe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:29 PM

Stemage, for instance has one of my favorite guitar tones I've heard, and I read on the MM forum a while back that he uses a peavey 1x15 blues amp.  What I can't figure out is how he gets his distortion.  Pedals?

I've talked to him a bunch about this, cause I love his tone, too... As far as I remember, he uses a Delta Blues (I believe Ailsean does as well), and that's that. I believe his exact description of his micing process was "SM57 about 30 degrees off angle, sitting in a shoe, right next to the grille". No overdrive/distortion pedals, all amp and guitar with a few exceptions. 


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#1197 munzadeth

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:30 PM

I mike a 1x12 marshall DSL... 400? 450? 600?  can't remember the number.  I was hoping it wouldn't be much different than miking one of the twelves on a half-stack... while that's not the case, I still get some cool tone out of it though I'd say my tone still needs a lot of work.  mike placement is a bitch.

 

it's still pretty loud to get good tone though.  not calling the cops loud, but possibly beating on the walls loud (I live in an apartment).  though so far so good.  I've recently done some DI/amp-sim stuff because it's just so much less stressful when I don't feel like everyone wants to kill me

 

Interesting.  What would you say are the big differences between miking the 1x12 and one of the 12s of a 4x12?  Just a fuller, thicker sound I'm guessing?  And how many watts is that amp?  I've seen some amps that soak down to 5w or even 1w and they're supposed stay true to their tone at lower volumes... any experience with that?


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#1198 munzadeth

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

Stemage, for instance has one of my favorite guitar tones I've heard, and I read on the MM forum a while back that he uses a peavey 1x15 blues amp.  What I can't figure out is how he gets his distortion.  Pedals?

I've talked to him a bunch about this, cause I love his tone, too... As far as I remember, he uses a Delta Blues (I believe Ailsean does as well), and that's that. I believe his exact description of his micing process was "SM57 about 30 degrees off angle, sitting in a shoe, right next to the grille". No overdrive/distortion pedals, all amp and guitar with a few exceptions. 

 

Wow no pedals?  I've found a few demos of the Delta Blues on youtube but I've never been able to find someone getting a metal tone out of it.  I've definitely noticed his tone (Stemage's) seems to have a lot less gain / more clarity than most metal tones, but I can't figure out how to get from the bluesy tones I've seen in those amp demos to the gorgeous metal tone Stemage gets.  I know layering rhythm guitar tracks on top of each other and panning them around can do a lot to beef up a low gain sound and make it sound more metal, but is that all he does?


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#1199 Rize

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:46 PM

I guess a lot of the tone comes from his technique. Here is a guess as to what might be happening. If you take a high gain amp and turn the guitar down and play lightly, the distortion gets thin. So even with high gain, if you don't feet it a loud enough signal from the guitar and fingers, you get a light fuzzy sound. So with a low gain amp, maybe you get a clean and tight heavy sound by simply playing very hard and loud with your hands. The loudest parts would be brief and transient possibly resulting in a tight clean distortion that lightens up when playing longer sustained notes.

In fact, that sounds like a really cool thing to try when I get home... I normally play super high gain and try to obtain clarity with control. I wonder how I would sound if I try low gain intense playing instead.
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#1200 Shoe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

Yeah, that and he pretty much cranks it. Despite youtube not showcasing it (because they're looking for a blues amp), it has a surprising amount of distortion.


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