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#256 auriplane

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:16 PM

Edit: holy crap the word 'major' looks so weird when you see that many instances of it.

 

Semantic satiation strikes again!


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#257 Rize

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 07:57 PM

I'm going to analyze many songs in the following way, if anyone is interested I'll keep posting the results here.
 
Batman (stage 1): Played mostly in modes of D Major (except the C Lydian section)

    8 measures: B Aeolian

2x| 8 measures: B Aeolian (or is it Harmonic Minor? due to the A#?)
  | 4 measures: C Lydian
  | 4 measures: F# Phyrgian

    2 measures: B Aeolian
    2 measures: A Mixolydian
    2 measures: G Lydian
    2 measures: F# Phrygian

2x| 2 measures: B Aeolian
  | 2 measuers: G Lydian
  | 2 measures: A Mixolydian
  | 2 measures: F# Phrygian
 
So Batman stage 1 is played in modes of D major for the most part.  During the first B Aeolian section the 7th is played natural which technically makes it a Harmonic Minor.  But if you try to play that scale it doesn't really sound right.  That is the only time a 7th is played on any instrument in any of the B Aeolian sections.  Without the natural 7th most of the time, I hear a B Natural Minor (Aeolian) not B Harmonic Minor.  So aside from the departure to C Lydian, every scale is a mode of D Major.  I don't know if this is significant, but C Lydian is a mode of G and G is the IV tone in the D Major scale.  Being one of the two Perfect tones in D Major, perhaps that makes the temporary key change from modes of D to a mode of G sound good.  However, I have not read any particular theory about changing keys yet (and I'm not sure I'm using the terminology correctly).  Maybe it's more significant that the 2nd to 7th tones in the C Lydian match the 3rd to 8th tones in the B Aeolian.

Random note... the Punch Out training song (while Doc is riding the bike) uses the same progression and modes as the middle part of this song, but a step down (so A G F E instead of B A G F#).
 

It's pretty cool how you can just drill these scales over each section of the song and it sounds like music.  It helps with learning the different mode shapes and if I want to pick the actual lead notes out, I know which notes to choose from which makes learning the song much easier.
 
Spoiler

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#258 auriplane

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:48 PM

Since the bass is actually like this in the beginning:

|-----------------|
|-----------------|
|-----------------|
|---------2-------|
|-2-2-5-2---0-5-2-|
|-----------------|

You hear a flattened seventh scale degree repeated until it changes to C Lydian.  The A♯ in the melody is an accidental.  Since the accidental falls halfway between two A naturals, it doesn't sound dissonant.  But because the bass keeps playing the A natural, it also sounds like the basic scale is Aeolian, not harmonic minor.


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#259 Rize

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 08:54 PM

Ah, I didn't notice that A note in the bass line. Thanks that clears things up a bit.
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#260 auriplane

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Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

Another note about the Batman song:

 

At 0:44, the melody plays B A♯ G♯ A♯ while octave F♯s repeat in the bass.  This outlines the chord F♯, which is the V borrowed from the parallel major.  Borrowing the V gives it the leading tone A♯, so called because it leads back to the tonic note, B.  It's pretty common to borrow the V like this, creating the very strong progression V → i.

 

You can call this the melodic minor.  (In modern music, the ascending/descending distinction is very often ignored.)  Technically, the whole measure fits into the melodic minor scale, but the 6th and 7th scale degrees aren't used until the end, so it's ambiguous until then.

 

Actually, in an awful lot of music, one or more of the scale degrees is ambiguous at least some of the time, so you can play modal stuff over it and it still sounds good :-)


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#261 Rize

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

I just wanted to share something that might be useful.  It's basically a major scale modes cheat sheet.  I made it so I can work with Famitracker more easily (since it represents notes by letter).  I probably wouldn't be interested in using it with a guitar and maybe not even with a MIDI editor that shows a staff view. 

 

https://dl.dropbox.c...modes/modes.doc

 

Print it then use a scissors to cut the two columns in half.  Now just slide a letter on the right to the mode you want to play in and the X's tell you the notes that make up that mode.  Glance down at the (key) line (or up to the Ionian line) and you can quickly know what key signature a mode is in (if I'm using the term correctly).  If you prefer flats to sharps you can edit that.  Likewise, changing the pattern of X's can give you other scales and their modes.

 

 

@auriplane, I'm going to take a closer look at what you said here.  I just haven't had time.


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#262 mothrock

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:31 PM

Music theory kind of ruined music for me to a point. While it is cool to understand what you are hearing and what drives the kinds of sounds that you personally like, once you know what is going on, it kind of demystifies the magic. 


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you're a signature.

#263 Rize

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 03:38 PM

Not for me so far.  So far I'm feeling empowered.  I feel like writing an album of original music is a real possibility now whereas before I didn't know where to begin.  I wrote 6 or 7 songs when I was in high school, but I was just fumbling in the dark and accidentally using "metal" scales (mostly E Locrian: Locrian = Metal, E = convenient chugging note).


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#264 auriplane

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:36 AM

About modes and guitar:

 

If you play the major scale with three notes per string, it can be played in seven positions, one beginning on each scale degree--and therefore, one position corresponding to each mode.  You can modify those scales so that you play only two notes on one of the strings, but it forces you to discard Ionian and Lydian, so you end up with only five positions.

 

I made this visualization of the modes and how they fit together on the guitar neck into one large, infinitely repeating pattern.  All diatonic scales are merely sections of this larger pattern.  Numbers represent scale degrees, columns represent frets, rows represent strings:

 

http://www.auriplane...r/diatonic.html


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#265 jvincion

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 10:25 PM

I just dug into just intonation and musical cents today - BOY HOWDY did that info open up the musical floodgates.  I don't think I've worked a calculator this much since my high school days. :D

 

Goodbye equal temperament!  Hello microtonality!


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#266 TETSUOOOO!!!

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:24 AM

Hey Rize, how's the world of music theory treating you these days?


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#267 Rize

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 11:37 AM

Mostly I've devolved into just drilling the 7 modes of the major scale.  However, that by itself has done wonders for me.  I'm quickly able to see when a bit of music is in one mode and when it goes from one to another.  It's made learning new parts easier and I'm a lot more comfortable with the transition from the G string to the B string.


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#268 VikingGuitar

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:59 PM

My new plan (as of today) is to only use diminished and phrygian.  And play everything over a low, palm-muted pedal tone.  I call it "thrash metal."


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Good lord, the fucking


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#269 Vegeroth

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:16 PM

Holy shit this youtube channel

 

https://www.youtube....EL82sKTfH9aMA9Q


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Live as if you would die tomorrow, learn as if you would live forever.


#270 Beef-Clef

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 10:51 AM

I unironically started practicing Yngwie licks in order to improve my picking technique. I have become harmonic minor.


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