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2016 US Presidential Election


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#4906 Xplo

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:18 AM

 

So, the way I see it, if you were really worried about the incoming administration, you wouldn't be saying Fuck Trump. You'd be saying Fuck the Democratic Party

 

And why can't we say "Fuck Trump" and "Fuck the Democratic Party?" I think you're preaching to the choir here if you're talking about how shitty the Democratic Party here is. Frink is the only person I know of who was a legit Hillary supporter. As far as I know, the rest of us voted against Trump, not for Hillary. At least that's the vibe I got from reading this thread for over a year now. 

 

 

Because Trump's a distraction. And because he's only one guy. And more importantly, because Trump's already in. Barring the electors pulling some crazy shenanigans and installing Hillary, his job is secure and no amount of symbolic fucking will change that. He doesn't have to do anything you say. You remember when there were antiwar protests with W? You remember how completely fucking useless they were? Like that.

But the Democrats, they're not in office. They're not secure. They need something from you. And that means you have leverage and time. If you fuck the Dems hard enough, and long enough, and often enough - oh, baby - maybe, just maybe, they'll pick better leaders and better candidates. Someone actually worth voting for. Someone who's not a lying, sell-outing piece of shit. Someone who doesn't start negotiations from the middle and then quietly give up when Republicans stonewall them. Someone who can actually win an election against Donald Trump.

Fucking the Democratic Party means you understand the problem and you have a possible solution.
Fucking Trump means you have no idea how to change anything.

You pick.


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#4907 raubhimself

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:27 AM

How exactly do you fuck the Democratic party when there are no elections for 2 more years? The Democratic party got fucked pretty hard this election, so if the party doesn't understand now, or in 2 years, what actionable items are we to take that will fuck them into doing our bidding?


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#4908 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:28 PM

Ah yes, the CIA. Noble purveyors of truth since their inception! We have every reason to trust whatever the CIA tells us!


The CIA and 16 other different intelligence agencies. Then there was the fact that Republican officials sat on the information (for personal gain). Sure, the case hasn't gone public yet and if they try to push for action without divulging evidence, I will be fully against it. But the Russian hacks and Pizzagate are not the same thing. Not by a long shot.

 

Your selective outrage, however, is noted. You being such a crusader for moral uprightness, I don't seem to recall you calling Trump on any of his multitudes of lies. You seem to be entirely placid on the prospect that a man conned his way into the most powerful office on the planet. Which leads into...
 

So, the way I see it, if you were really worried about the incoming administration, you wouldn't be saying Fuck Trump. You'd be saying Fuck the Democratic Party. You'd be calling for Pelosi and Schumer's heads. Because cleaning house in DC is what's going to save this country from fascism, not whining on the internet (or in the streets) and blaming America's woes on people in other states who voted for the guy you didn't want to win because the other party put forth the worst candidate it possibly could.

 

lol

 

So apparently, due to Xplo Official Rules On Internet Arguing, we can't be against both things at the same time - it's actually fascinating how often this seems to come up when talking about corruption. We're all just not allowed to express our outrage at multiple instances of shady behavior on multiple fronts, I mean the internet runs on false dichotomies, right?

 

Hillary Clinton is guilty of gamesmanship and being a bought-and-paid-for politician. What you don't seem to understand is that this is the status quo; we're used to this, it's not new, it's normal, it's what we've been dealing with for years and years...and whether you like it or not, just that sort of ilk has been steadily increasing the quality of life for Americans over the past eight years. Oh sure, it hasn't been perfect. Obama effectively renewed the Patriot Act, for goodness' sake, he didn't close Guantanamo, etc. The point is, awareness of political subterfuge plus stability equals a modestly content, modestly nervous population. 

 

Trump is a wildcard. A bad one, an absolutely awful one. And to say that we're not allowed to express our displeasure at the demeanor and policies of a man who lost the popular vote by five times the nearest amount in American history is one of the more absurd things I've heard in this election cycle. 

 

Xplo, your "motivational speech" may not be invalid, but coming from your lips it just oozes out like bullshit. 


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#4909 Xplo

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:47 PM

Nearly everything you say is bullshit, Lemon. Save it for someone who likes that stuff, like Frink or dasaten.


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#4910 TV's Frink

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:49 PM

Nearly everything you say is bullshit, Xplo. Save it for someone who likes that stuff, like...?  Strader?  Rize?  Maybe?


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#4911 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:51 PM

Nearly everything you say is bullshit, Lemon. Save it for someone who likes that stuff, like Frink or dasaten.

 

Strader, get off Xplo's account. 


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#4912 unluckycharm

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:00 PM

And the hacking plot thickens.  Veteran intelligence people say no way the DNC/RNC servers were hacked. Evidence points to a leak. 

 

https://consortiumne...hacking-claims/

 

Hmm. 


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#4913 Xplo

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:10 PM

How exactly do you fuck the Democratic party when there are no elections for 2 more years? The Democratic party got fucked pretty hard this election, so if the party doesn't understand now, or in 2 years, what actionable items are we to take that will fuck them into doing our bidding?

 

America switches parties every couple of terms. Has done for decades. For the Party, this loss isn't really that surprising or that much of a big deal. (Obviously, or else they would have tried harder to win.) So it doesn't feel that fucked; it figures that next time, it'll just push the same pitch a little harder, and that should be good enough. Dems need to lose a few times in a row to really panic.

There are two ways to fuck the Democratic Party into being better. One requires a significant time investment from numerous people, and will work. The other is much easier, quicker, and less likely to have much effect - but who knows.

The first one is to become the Democratic Party. Gather up every friend you know who feels that it would be really nice to have a real opposition party to the Republicans, if they weren't such corrupt elitist shitmongerers, and start going to party meetings. Start outvoting the people who usually show up there and start supporting the candidates and policies you want the Democrats to support. Some people will have to take on careers in politics and climb the ladder, infiltrating and replacing as you go. Others will have to run for office.

But that's hard and no one's really up for that.

So the second one is to focus all that salt and contempt and outraged disbelief you give Trump at the Democratic Party. Call out their shit, demand new leadership, demand that they support policies you like. Change the conversation away from Trump, who is a distraction, to what you're going to beat Trump with. If people can go out at night and march around in the streets and hold signs and yell "fuck Trump", they can just as easily yell "fuck Pelosi" or "fuck Donna Brazile" or "we want single-payer" or "we want an end to higher ed debt" or "raise taxes on the rich". Wherever you go to talk about politics, instead of whining about Trump or Republicans, keep the focus on the Democrats: what they're doing wrong, what they need to do better. Drive a narrative.


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#4914 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:47 PM

And the hacking plot thickens.  Veteran intelligence people say no way the DNC/RNC servers were hacked. Evidence points to a leak. 

 

https://consortiumne...hacking-claims/

 

Hmm. 

 

This is a weird article. First of all, nobody knows what the CIA's evidence is yet, so how can they possibly dismiss it? 

 

Secondly, they're talking about "tracing packets" in a weird way. Unless they know precisely who the leakers are and can physically intercept their data routes, anyone who is sending/receiving information that doesn't want to be found can easily hide both their identity and the information they're passing with a simple Tails/Tor installation over a VPN. Circumstantial evidence, in fact, is often what is required to get a lead on who to specifically monitor - nobody is going to find what they're looking for by flailing blindly in the dark over such an insurmountably massive data network as the internet. 

 

If they're saying "oh, well, if you don't have credible logs of this Russian IP accessing this system at this time, then you have no evidence", well that's a wee bit strict. 


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#4915 unluckycharm

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 02:31 PM

And without the full set of evidence it is hard for anyone to properly evaluate the claim.  Are we now in a "post evidence" world too? 


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#4916 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 02:46 PM

If the CIA + friends don't pony up after making such a big stink, that will be a humongous black stain and a boon to Trump. They best not be messing around. 


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#4917 ShawnPhase

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 03:04 PM

http://gizmodo.com/d...self-1790044894

 

i love all the resistance toward trump, shit is great. he made an enemy outta the cia and fbi already too

 

http://www.newyorker...th-c-i-a-attack


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#4918 bestrader

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:20 PM

The DNC stuff being a leak and not a hack is old news. It's called WikiLeaks, not WikiHacks. 

 

I haven't read up all too much about Pizzagate except to know that it originated in the Podesta emails, just like Spirit Cooking. I read some of said emails, where words like "pizza" were used as code for something else (and it's really obvious, because the sentences don't make sense). 

 

Haven't really looked that much into it. Haven't seen it on twitter either, and I never went to the subreddit -- I only heard about it after it got censored. 

 

Has anyone done more research into it around here? Or is the opinion just that it's fake and nobody looked further at it?


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#4919 Rize

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:05 AM

And the hacking plot thickens.  Veteran intelligence people say no way the DNC/RNC servers were hacked. Evidence points to a leak. 

 

https://consortiumne...hacking-claims/

 

Hmm. 

 

A leak... which is exactly what Julian Assange has been saying.


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#4920 Rize

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:17 AM

The DNC stuff being a leak and not a hack is old news. It's called WikiLeaks, not WikiHacks. 

 

I haven't read up all too much about Pizzagate except to know that it originated in the Podesta emails, just like Spirit Cooking. I read some of said emails, where words like "pizza" were used as code for something else (and it's really obvious, because the sentences don't make sense). 

 

Haven't really looked that much into it. Haven't seen it on twitter either, and I never went to the subreddit -- I only heard about it after it got censored. 

 

Has anyone done more research into it around here? Or is the opinion just that it's fake and nobody looked further at it?

 

At this point, it's a classic conspiracy theory.  Like most conspiracy theories, there are a couple things that make you raise your eyebrows, but nothing that allows anyone to draw definitive conclusions.


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