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#3136 Tina

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

April 20 is the day the Columbine shooting happened, which surely wasn't the first US school shooting, but it was the first that really put school shootings in the national consciousness.

 

Though I'm sure there are plenty of people who are ignorant of history out there who are assuming kids picked the day because they want to stay home and smoke weed.


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#3137 dasaten

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 12:12 PM

April 20 is the day the Columbine shooting happened, which surely wasn't the first US school shooting, but it was the first that really put school shootings in the national consciousness.

 

Though I'm sure there are plenty of people who are ignorant of history out there who are assuming kids picked the day because they want to stay home and smoke weed.

also the date hitler and charlie chaplin were born within hours of each other.. ;)

and again re: antifa, i came across a suuuppper stupid group (AFFA) of western antifa kids going to northern syria to fight (who knows whom).. a la islamic extremist recrutiment strategies... 100% kremlin is behind these recruiting efforts,, but these kids are LARPing so hard they are actually flying to syria,, which is quite scaryyy.. doesn't seem like all too many at this point... just a few dozen idiots running around in a field with guns and posing for selfies in rojava.. but yeah. whoa..bad stuff


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#3138 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 05:04 PM

and again re: antifa, i came across a suuuppper stupid group (AFFA) of western antifa kids going to northern syria to fight (who knows whom).. a la islamic extremist recrutiment strategies... 100% kremlin is behind these recruiting efforts,, but these kids are LARPing so hard they are actually flying to syria,, which is quite scaryyy.. doesn't seem like all too many at this point... just a few dozen idiots running around in a field with guns and posing for selfies in rojava.. but yeah. whoa..bad stuff

 

 

There's a lot in this thread in general that I want to respond to, but I'll start here. I'm not gonna sugar coat this. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

You're seriously suggesting the Kremlin - the explicitly pro Assad Kremlin - is behind people flying to Rojava to fight ISIS? What do you think is happening out there? These are the Kurdish rebels that the U.S. has no choice but to back because they're the only, and I mean only group that has been successful at winning battles against ISIS on the ground. They're successfully reclaiming/liberating land taken by Islamic State fighters, resisting the far-right authoritarian Turkish government (the same Turkish regime that lets ISIS fighters flow freely through their borders), holding their own against Assad and aiding refugees from Assad's regime.

 

The Y.P.G. and Y.P.J. (their all woman militia) remains undefeated against ISIS, and literally all of the gains that have been made over the past several years on that front have been made by them. I know people who've went there to fight with them. I know people who've went there to volunteer on the civilian side of things too. I have friends of friends who have died fighting ISIS who flew out there because the U.S. government has effectively not been doing shit other than making big talk on the news. Oh but those people who literally died fighting Islamic extremists and saving millions of people from Islamofascist repression were just "LARPing."

 

You'll hear Trump talk about how the U.S. is beating ISIS. Who do you think is fighting those fights? It's not the U.S. military. We don't have a great track record at winning guerrilla wars in the desert. Without these people, the region would be fucked. They're practically the only progressive force active in the entire Middle East. They're fighting for democracy (actual democracy, not the bullshit kind we have in the U.S.), women's liberation, and equality among ethnic and religious groups that have traditionally hated each other. And it's working. I can link you to some pretty good reading materials if you want.

 

I know Russia is doing some fucked up shit, but dude you really need to chill out with calling literally everything a Russian conspiracy. This one doesn't even make sense. Like what the hell are you even thinking? They're fighting the people Russia is backing lmao. What could Russia possibly gain from backing a group whose interests are exactly the opposite of theirs? The Turkish military is committing a borderline genocide in Afrin right now, and you're calling the only people who are beating Islamic extremists Islamic extremists? 

 

Sorry for coming off like an ass here, but come on. Some fucked up shit is happening in the Middle East. But don't get it twisted.


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#3139 Beef-Clef

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:00 PM

I think that both the USA and Russia have deep ties to most of the terrible things happening around the world. In Europe it was common knowledge to even the kids that the USA and Russia were manipulating/hiring/using various religious and terrorist groups as part of broad power grabs in that region since at least the 60s-70s. If you trace back any terrorist organization in the middle east you'll likely find it rooted in either American or Russian political interests.

I don't know about Russian conspiracies that are circulating these days, but they and the USA together have more or less directly caused the scale of violence in the middle east. Look at any two groups in that region close enough and it'll boil down to AK47 vs M16. 

 

Like Sagnew said, the fighting in the middle east is largely done via proxy. Groups fighting in the name of a terrorist organisations vs groups fighting in the name of USA/UK/Russia. When Trump or any politician says that "we" are winning, they're referring to our troops, funding, supplies and weapons that are playing a support role are giving one indigenous group the edge over ISIS (which you can say the USA "created").

The only issue I take with that is that history tells a story very different from what we want to believe. Same with the Arab Spring in Egypt and democratic elections in Iraq. Every large scale terrorist organization was once a rebel group of underdogs fighting for some almost decent cause who got armed, trained and funded by an American or Russian politician. After they win, guess what happens? They turn on their supporting nation and start creating dissidents by way of their tyrannical behavior.

A people so deeply rooted in the strictest religious feuding are ones to avoid politically and militarily. There is no correct side to take and come out clean. The USA and Russia made some big mistakes when they chose to get involved, thinking they could bleed the territory of natural resources with minimal collateral damage (although, knowing how governments think/work I sincerely doubt they gave a second thought to the long term large scale catastrophe they caused).

So maybe everything isn't a Russian conspiracy, but most of our global problems that we deal with today are a result of American and Russian meddling, and neither government is doing what they need in order to stop it because it's not in their interests to stop it. It's a global scale stock market where they trade in power and lives. The only real victories the USA has had in that entire region for the past 50 years have been the good fortune of backing the terrorist groups who win over the Russian backed ones.


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#3140 dasaten

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 07:28 PM

 

and again re: antifa, i came across a suuuppper stupid group (AFFA) of western antifa kids going to northern syria to fight (who knows whom).. a la islamic extremist recrutiment strategies... 100% kremlin is behind these recruiting efforts,, but these kids are LARPing so hard they are actually flying to syria,, which is quite scaryyy.. doesn't seem like all too many at this point... just a few dozen idiots running around in a field with guns and posing for selfies in rojava.. but yeah. whoa..bad stuff

 

 

There's a lot in this thread in general that I want to respond to, but I'll start here. I'm not gonna sugar coat this. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

You're seriously suggesting the Kremlin - the explicitly pro Assad Kremlin - is behind people flying to Rojava to fight ISIS? What do you think is happening out there? These are the Kurdish rebels that the U.S. has no choice but to back because they're the only, and I mean only group that has been successful at winning battles against ISIS on the ground. They're successfully reclaiming/liberating land taken by Islamic State fighters, resisting the far-right authoritarian Turkish government (the same Turkish regime that lets ISIS fighters flow freely through their borders), holding their own against Assad and aiding refugees from Assad's regime.

 

The Y.P.G. and Y.P.J. (their all woman militia) remains undefeated against ISIS, and literally all of the gains that have been made over the past several years on that front have been made by them. I know people who've went there to fight with them. I know people who've went there to volunteer on the civilian side of things too. I have friends of friends who have died fighting ISIS who flew out there because the U.S. government has effectively not been doing shit other than making big talk on the news. Oh but those people who literally died fighting Islamic extremists and saving millions of people from Islamofascist repression were just "LARPing."

 

You'll hear Trump talk about how the U.S. is beating ISIS. Who do you think is fighting those fights? It's not the U.S. military. We don't have a great track record at winning guerrilla wars in the desert. Without these people, the region would be fucked. They're practically the only progressive force active in the entire Middle East. They're fighting for democracy (actual democracy, not the bullshit kind we have in the U.S.), women's liberation, and equality among ethnic and religious groups that have traditionally hated each other. And it's working. I can link you to some pretty good reading materials if you want.

 

I know Russia is doing some fucked up shit, but dude you really need to chill out with calling literally everything a Russian conspiracy. This one doesn't even make sense. Like what the hell are you even thinking? They're fighting the people Russia is backing lmao. What could Russia possibly gain from backing a group whose interests are exactly the opposite of theirs? The Turkish military is committing a borderline genocide in Afrin right now, and you're calling the only people who are beating Islamic extremists Islamic extremists? 

 

Sorry for coming off like an ass here, but come on. Some fucked up shit is happening in the Middle East. But don't get it twisted.

 

Ok.. All the realities here are how I understand them to be as well.. and I learned a bit more even... the women's militias sound badassed as fuck..I think the point I'm trying to make is just a bit more nuanced and complex than I was ready to do in my previous post, so sorry if I seemed twisted or didn't come across as super clear..

so a few days ago i was talking to a guy who claimed to currently be in Rojava. on an r/anarchism... they are using reddit as a recuriting platform, more specifically an outfit called "socialist rifle association" to directly recruit young men to go overseas and train..

what these soft little, very likely CoD or CS lovin boys who have never seen or heard combat, are doing in the midst of battle hardened soliders and officers  -- and civilians whose political and cultural circumstances i would imagine would at least be a 5 year or more endeavour for many these guys to get over culture shock of any kind and get thru to an understanding of where they have ended up.. and what exactly they are doing there.. is to me quite unclear..

the guy I was talking to had arrived fairly recently, and he said it was quite disorganized, and mostly just a couple dozen people running around in fields passing for "training"

though, for all that, they do like to post some pretty posturing pics of themselves holding assault rifles and flags and for selfies...


also, they are NOT the only ppl beating them. maybe in the current months yes, but  Turkish (quasi, as they target kurds in their advances)) US and Iraqi armies both led huge campaigns against ISIS in many cities over the last 2-3 years.. no? and, of course EXACTLY what Russia are doing there in Syria is somewhat uncertain..

but, as the United Russia ruling party's ideological trajectory (white fascist terrorism theocracy) - and the trajectory of groups like ISIS (islamic extremists terrorism and theocracy) ---- I'd say the forces of Russia and Extremists groups in middle east are rather working in concert than in opposition to each other..

the dominionisms found in both their movements driving ideologies largely similar in many ways. and, perhaps so strongly ideologically grounded.. that such courses have no need of even being directed by a person or persons... but rather become an emergent property of such related totalitarianist religious dogmas colliding together in a fusion might produce.....

might well be some pretty nasty newer  forms to come out of this fusion yet, such as the "form" of suicide martyrdom, which originated in 1980s Iran-Iraq war, a desperation measure, as Iran were so severely outmatched by Iraq's US and Soviet tech -- or the form of male white christian mass shooting terrorism we all know and despise.

so, back to AFFA.. i did visit their recruiting sub, r/socialistRA, and it's linked to r/anarchism and many other left subs which i know for 100% to be heavily infested, if not entirely compromised by both live Russian trolls at all hours of the day, and bots galore of all sorts..

that is to say, the fundemental narrative of these political communities on reddit, is driven almost entirely, if not wholly, by russian thinkfluence.

this i can say with total certainty, and have documented evidence, and as well you can just go jump in the cesspool over there and see for yourself how bad it is right now..

honestly, I do not think that making an assessment that the whole body of narratives and discourses on all of reddit . com are driven mostly by russian thinkfluencers.. it's seriously and critically compromised at least on political  and philosophy and media subs.. none i came across that didn't have intermediate to very high levels of troll influence present.....



my best guess at present. - it is of course Russia's aim to destabilize polities which they oppose to some extent... so it could perhaps be that this "recruitment drive" of getting a bunch of idiot americans over into an active war zone/formative socialist democratic project underway - could be exactly what could do the trick...

what's even more sick.. is that I think they barely even have to try here to get these guys, the ones that already want to go to be a part of something and claim a sense of masculinity they never even possessed in the first place, to sign up... they're so ready to take a fall and be duped..

bringing undertrained and underinformed americans to the middle east has never failed to do just that in the past, it seems at least.




________________________

also, all that stuff i decribed above about russian trolls and bots... they are using the same systems RIGHT NOW to track, datamine, relocate, and downvote, flag and remove ANY and all content they can that is pro strict gun legislation in the US. i'd imagine, as reddit is much more of a wild west frontier than FB.. that it is a kind of proving grounds for russian recon...

to locate the narratives on other platforms,, unplatform,, and direct as much of their echoing as they can in that direction to drown it out..

haha, i wonder if russian trolls have a backend gui for showing all this stuff in some kind of mapping of some sort...i'm just holding it in some loose transitory containers i've cobbled together as signposts so far myself..

sam, do you know anything about "ego network diagramming"?

____________________________________

and, this just in - from transparent live human (or at least a damn good facsimile) russian troll, about 30 min ago
 

 

https://www.reddit.c...ser/fox_traitor
 

 


so did Russia stop Clinton from campaigning in Wisconsin or anywhere in the Rustbelt?

did Russia tell Clinton to support a no fly zone over Syria witch would have cost $12 billion a year while 45,000 Americans die each year because of lack of health insurances

did Russia tell Clinton to do speeches on wall street and take their money?

did Russia tell Clinton to have a public and private position?

face it Clinton was a BAD candidate.


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#3141 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:34 PM

@beef-clef You're right about a lot of what you're saying. I agree with most of your post. I'm aware of the Western imperialism happening in the region since the fall of the Ottoman empire. Completely agree with your assessment that the United States and Russia have both been causing the lion's share of destabilization in the Middle East at large. That kinda shit is like all I read about these days. 

 

To paint the Y.P.G. as a straight up U.S. proxy army is a little disingenuous, though their interests temporarily align with America's in the sense that they're fighting Assad and ISIS. They are not pro-America, nor should they be. The minute their goals stop conveniently aligning with the USA, we will bomb them to hell and back and incorrectly label them a terrorist group. By that I don't mean "when they turn on us" I mean the opposite. Their goals will not change. If they are successful, then they will no longer be useful to us.

 

They know full well what the future holds between them and the United States if the Assad regime, ISIS and the Turkish AKP were to fall. I mean ideologically speaking, they're an explicitly anti-capitalist, libertarian socialist entity. The United States isn't going to be fine with them reclaiming Kurdish land and turning it into an autonomous zone that runs on something resembling direct democracy. They're super anti-imperialist so the second the U.S. wants their oil, they're fucked. And when it comes to the U.S. backing them, even that is half assed. We try sending them weapons and sometimes give them air support, but accidentally (or not accidentally) hit the wrong target or drop supplies in the wrong location. And even when it comes to supplying them, we have an awkward relationship because they're enemies of the Turkish state and Turkey are our allies. They were fighting their fight before the U.S. took an interest in them. The PKK (the Turkish equivalent of the YPG) have been fighting an armed struggle against the Turkish state since the 80's. Though they started off as a Marxist-Leninist group in those days. The PKK abandoned Marxism-Leninism and authoritarianism in general a bunch of years ago though.

 

The only issue I take with that is that history tells a story very different from what we want to believe. Same with the Arab Spring in Egypt and democratic elections in Iraq. Every large scale terrorist organization was once a rebel group of underdogs fighting for some almost decent cause who got armed, trained and funded by an American or Russian politician. After they win, guess what happens? They turn on their supporting nation and start creating dissidents by way of their tyrannical behavior.

 

I might be misinterpreting this part, but if you're implying that the YPG is going to turn on their supporting nation (America) and enforce some kind of tyrannical behavior, you'd be kind of misunderstanding what they are. They're probably the only anti-authoritarian force in the world at the moment aside from the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico. That's the whole reason anarchists and libertarian socialists abroad are going there to fight with them, even if they aren't actually creating an anarchist society because Democratic Confederalism (the ideology their movement is based on) isn't completely non-hierarchical. The U.S. are the tyrants in this situation for sure. Again, if the Syrian Kurds succeed, we will fill Assad's void with a pro-U.S. (likely fascist but maybe not quite) dictator, and then we will paint them as terrorists and help seize Rojava's land back for Syria. But whatever, I can't predict the future. That just seems likely given US foreign policy in general since the beginning of the Cold War. 

 

@dasaten

 

Again, ISIS has been undefeated against U.S. forces on the ground. We are terrible at guerrilla warfare. That's why we're even kind of backing the Syrian Kurds in the first place. Most of the campaigns we've been involved with have either been failures, or have been led by the Kurds. US and European media tends to massively downplay the role the Kurds have played in all of this. And Turkey has been helping ISIS out for years by giving them information and letting them freely pass through their borders as long as they are fighting the Kurds. The Turkish AKP wants to wipe the Kurds out, as you acknowledged, and they don't really have many qualms with ISIS in particular. And I believe most of the Iraqi forces you mentioned were actually the Iraqi Kurds led by Barzani, who is a nationalist tool to be honest. 

 

As for Russian trolls/bots infesting subreddits...I don't know man. I don't go on r/anarchism much but I've been on there a few times as every couple of weeks I'll browse all the weird political subreddits (and I look at r/the_donald on a weekly basis...god damn is it a cesspool). Anyway it seems like a pretty mundane and fairly normal anarchist subreddit to me. You said you have evidence, so I'd love if you'd post some. I don't mean that in a confrontational way. I literally just want to see that because it sounds interesting. Russia has been imprisoning a lot of anarchist activists lately so I wouldn't be surprised if they were spying or gathering intel. The US intelligence agencies and various police forces in general do that in left wing Facebook groups all the time. I don't really see how Americans fighting with the YPG helps Russia in any way. That just seems like a really huge stretch. 

 

Any foreigners who go to Rojava have to go through a ton of shit to get there, and they invariably put their lives at risk if they are signing up to fight with the YPG. They also get vetted by the PYD (the political entity in Rojava) before being transported there and have to go through months of combat training before they can even fight. I don't really know shit about AFFA so I won't comment on that. Everyone I've talked to or heard from who's been out there has been in the Y.P.G. directly. 

 

ANYWAY if you have a shitload of time on your hands and want to read about this shit, or want to know where I'm getting this info from, here is a PDF of a long ass book about the entire situation. I've read through it a lot in my spare time over the last several months because I have no life. There is a shorter/condensed version that I had a hard copy of and gave to Robby. You can email or tweet at the author and he'll send you a PDF of it for free. The summarized version is like 150 pages or something and is actually a reeeaaally good summary of everything that's going on. 


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#3142 Beef-Clef

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:27 AM

 

The only issue I take with that is that history tells a story very different from what we want to believe. Same with the Arab Spring in Egypt and democratic elections in Iraq. Every large scale terrorist organization was once a rebel group of underdogs fighting for some almost decent cause who got armed, trained and funded by an American or Russian politician. After they win, guess what happens? They turn on their supporting nation and start creating dissidents by way of their tyrannical behavior.

 

I might be misinterpreting this part, but if you're implying that the YPG is going to turn on their supporting nation (America) and enforce some kind of tyrannical behavior, you'd be kind of misunderstanding what they are. They're probably the only anti-authoritarian force in the world at the moment aside from the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico. That's the whole reason anarchists and libertarian socialists abroad are going there to fight with them, even if they aren't actually creating an anarchist society because Democratic Confederalism (the ideology their movement is based on) isn't completely non-hierarchical. The U.S. are the tyrants in this situation for sure. Again, if the Syrian Kurds succeed, we will fill Assad's void with a pro-U.S. (likely fascist but maybe not quite) dictator, and then we will paint them as terrorists and help seize Rojava's land back for Syria. But whatever, I can't predict the future. That just seems likely given US foreign policy in general since the beginning of the Cold War. 

 

I wasn't talking about YPG, I was trying to get the point across that the USA tends to support groups which basically amount to and evolve into terrorist organizations. What I mean is, even if the US fully backs a relatively secular militia like YPG it most likely won't amount to anything good given the climate that's been created and maintained.

The pattern is simple:
- locate conflict in region where you want something
- send supplies, weapons, training, troops (in varying degrees of scope and transparency) to side most likely to win
- having long term plan to treat them as enemies when they:
           A) start a genocide and impose tyrannical rule
           or
            B) find out how badly they got played and turn against you

For the YPG, fighting for what essentially amounts to communism in that region sets them up to be prime targets by just about everyone around them (including USA). Communism and socialism (and their derivatives) do not work in most of cases, and in heavily unstable environments like Syria or the rest of the middle east there is absolutely no chance of anything like that being sustained. That story has been repeated many of times in that region with the same result; dictatorship. Then you have to ask yourself how that's any different from Assad's anti-imperialism-turned-fascism? 

Overall I have no faith in the YPG because their ideologies are going to drive local forces away. Their support from abroad is growing while they're losing local support, and to me that doesn't set up a sustainable foundation. If they do defeat ISIS they'd be big enough to want more than just dirt and bragging rights, and after all the foreign anarchists go home they'll be basically a dissident militia, and historically when those get big enough they go from liberation to government takeover to dictatorship pretty damn quick.


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#3143 dasaten

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:20 PM

@ sam - i hear ya...and yes, kurdish forces are badassed as fuck, specially compared to US forces.. we've got a lot of old retired Kurdish fighters and refugees here in Berlin



i've only gotten on reddit in the last couple months. it could well be that the current russian troll and bot campaigns that are currently underway there were not when you were on these platofrms... or that you are not as able to instantly spot them in action as others are..

again the range goes from something like ---- live human Russian troll sitting in an office in Russia - Russian bots and the datamines they use to catalogue and track content they'd like to deplatform --- useful idiots that have been recruited, either by live Russian troll, very advanced robopersonas, or by other useful idiots (mostly american) that have already been recruited themselves....

again, my point about recruitments of westerners to Northern Syria on r/socialistRA was mostly to raise questions -why? how? who? what? is going on there exactly??!! and, also just to highlight the concern that this is NOT in any way an isolated phenomenon currently

see the wired article i posted in social media censorship thread..


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#3144 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 12:32 PM

Well the USA definitely supports groups that evolve into terrorist organizations. Definitely agree with you there :P Rojava isn't "relatively" secular. It is completely secular. There is no religious basis for anything they are doing. There are a varieties of different religious groups living in the same neighborhoods. It is probably more religiously diverse per capita than the United States in that aspect. 

 

Anyway that pattern you laid out jives with what I know. US foreign policy has pretty reliably done what you said. 

 

That story has been repeated many of times in that region with the same result; dictatorship. Then you have to ask yourself how that's any different from Assad's anti-imperialism-turned-fascism? 

 

Well for one, Assad and the Syrian state in general is Ba'athist. Ba'athism is an explicitly authoritarian Arab nationalist ideology. There was no delusion of liberation other than national self determination for a unified Arab nation-state. So it's pretty far-fetched to compare a libertarian autonomous movement like Rojava that's ultimately opposed to the concept of a nation-state and favors democratic confederalization to an authoritarian nationalist movement that suppresses non Arabs, just on the basis that they are anti-imperialist. Any movement that isn't a straight up US puppet state is going to be anti-imperialist. The only thing they have in common is that they don't want to give the USA their oil. 

 

The only socialist movements in the Middle East have been either Ba'athist or Marxist-Leninist. Rojava is radically different than anything that's been tried in the region. The story you're talking about that has been repeated many times has been that of explicitly authoritarian movements fighting for state control and state power. The PYD/YPG (there are so many god damn acronyms lol) isn't even Marxist. The sole reason they exist was Abdullah Ă–calan's denunciation of Marxism after reading about social ecology and shit like that while being detained by the Turkish state. (He's the leader of the Turkish PKK and the dude who developed Democratic Confederlism as a political theory). 

 

Overall I have no faith in the YPG because their ideologies are going to drive local forces away. Their support from abroad is growing while they're losing local support, and to me that doesn't set up a sustainable foundation.

 

I ask out of genuine curiosity (tone is hard to convey over text), but do you have examples of them losing any local support they had? Whenever they gain "control" over new territory (typically by driving ISIS out of a given region), their first step is educating the population on how to govern themselves, and arming them for self defense. In the first place, there was never any local support in terms of other military actors in the region if that's what you're talking about. Every other political/military entity in the general region wants them dead. But so far they've proven capable of defending themselves against attacks on all fronts, even including keeping the second largest NATO army at bay and basically embarrassing the shit out of Turkey. (Quick disclaimer: A lot of European and American reporting on Turkey's military operation in Afrin are based off of straight up Turkish propaganda). 

 

If they do defeat ISIS they'd be big enough to want more than just dirt and bragging rights, and after all the foreign anarchists go home they'll be basically a dissident militia, and historically when those get big enough they go from liberation to government takeover to dictatorship pretty damn quick.

 

They pretty much already have defeated ISIS. They've driven ISIS out of Syria and into the Iraqi desert, and ISIS has no more control over any significant territories. The fight's not totally over, but ISIS is pretty much fucked right now. They're going to need to rely on Turkey to beat the YPG. And the land they're reclaiming isn't just dirt. It has a shitload of valuable natural resources (which when all is said and done will look pretty nice to the USA once we decide to label them as terrorists and bomb the shit out of them 5-10 years from now). It's also land that has massive historical and cultural significance to them because it is literally Western Kurdistan. Their goal is to reclaim Kurdish land from Turkey, Syria and Iraq (though the Iraqi Kurds are a different situation entirely) to operate as an autonomous region governed by its citizens via directly democratic councils. 

 

Regarding your comment on foreign anarchists going home and them becoming a dissident militia: While they're getting help from international leftist individuals (or as dasaten says, Russian trolls :P) flying out there to fight in the revolution because they share the same ideals, foreign fighters ultimately make up a small percentage of their forces. Rather than the detriment of losing a small percentage of their fighting force, losing international support would be bad for them in the sense that it would make it much easier for the United States and Turkey to gain public support for bombing them to hell. International solidarity movements are pretty key to maintaining discourse that keeps the Kurds from being labeled as terrorists by Western powers. 

 

As for dictatorship, it is entirely possible that some Marxist-Leninist faction will try to seize power (as history has shown to happen fairly often), or that the Iraqi Kurds will try to co-opt Rojava's movement to claim a unified Kurdish nation state as their own. Not gonna deny that, since shit like that can happen anytime there is a power vacuum. This is the whole reason they are fighting. But they're taking steps to eliminate the chances of something like that happening. For one, civilians are armed and police themselves, and the YPG/YPJ has no influence over civilian life. In Rojava, everyone gets a gun as long as they go through a couple months of training, which aside from how to effectively and safely operate their weapon, involves learning the concepts of communal self-policing, how to democratically manage resources, non-violence, and education on feminist theory because gender equality is at the forefront of their priorities. That might've been a bit of a tangent, but arming and training your citizens to fight authoritarian powers is not a very good strategy for any would-be authoritarians. The system they have set up is fairly complex so I'm obviously not going to explain all of it right here.

 

Anyway I obviously find the way they organize their society fascinating, which is why I read so much about it. Sorry for the walls of text haha. I like talking to Americans/Westerners about what's happening in Rojava because it is not getting much coverage and is glossed over in a lot of Western discourse. 


see the wired article i posted in social media censorship thread..

 

Yo I'll check that out sometime tonight! I wrote that long ass response post to beef-clef above a few hours ago and it just now posted when I opened my laptop again :o


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#3145 dasaten

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:36 PM

US suck at guerilla warfare

You raise a very interesting point here Sam. That the US armed forces do in fact, very much stink at guerilla warfare, and that this has been an issue going forward since the end of WWII..

It wasn't always the case, as in the Revolutionary War, the wars following that, the Civil War, etc... US were groundbreaking pioneers and some of the most foremost experts in the world in guerilla tactics... they had had to be to beat the British Empire of course.

 

But, now the US is the world empire, not the British any longer... and our forces since the Vietnam era are largely made up incompetent white lower middle class kids, themselves wrought with anxiety, depression and a whole host of mental health issues that we are very familiar with ourselves here on the Shizz, having grown up in the global neo-liberal disaster capitalist imperial Homeland..

These kids though, really don't belong in any armed forces in the first place, but rather should be receiving years of compassionate psychiatric and psychological treatment.


So, again to the original question. What is it that makes these kids and adults and other US armed forces members who are not specially trained members of a JSOC outfit.... what makes them so poor at guerilla warfare... why is so difficult for them to manage ANYthing even remotely close to the levels of situational awareness and resilience that other forces the US has fought over the past 60 or so years manage with utter ease..?

And, with all that in mind,,, then think a bit about the projects that DARPA have been developing, since I've been alive at least.. some 45 years or so now.. to cybernetically enhance US soliders level of situational awareness and fortitude on the battlefield perhaps..


And, also think about what it means when a global or continental/period/war specific hegemon have the most advanced military tech available in the world.. Was same with the Germans in WWII - they had rockets and fighter jets - the allies did not..... same with British Empire and all previous...

So, now that, with the help of reverse engineering Nazi jets and rockets US could make it to the moon and have the most advanced armed forces in the world.... what does that say just about the production sequences of technologies as they move through osmosis, being passed on as a sort of relay baton,, from each global empire to the next throughout history?


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#3146 Robby V

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Posted 18 February 2018 - 02:41 PM

Donald Trump Is Your New President


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#3147 dasaten

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Posted Yesterday, 12:39 AM

Donald Trump Is Your New President

And likes must be put in to rape Jailbait 


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