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Donald Trump Is Your New President.


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#3646 TV's Frink

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:41 AM

You know you've gotten old when you start blaming things on any demographic in general, and "the youth" in particular.

https://youtu.be/-ktf-Y3pg60

I try not to shit on people for their age group, but it can be hard. Especially with those fucking boomers.


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#3647 Robby V

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 11:45 AM

What a disconnected-ivory-tower-ass take.

Yeah people are dying overseas, black people being killed by cops, children are being jailed, people are losing their insurance and their homes, and 70+% of the country lives paycheck to paycheck. At least no one is saying cuss words tho!!!!

I will add that right wing pundits on twitter and TV always feed that same line. I’m pretty sure you shouldn’t listen to advice from your competitors.

Here’s a really good analysis of the “civility fetish’ issue
https://m.soundcloud...civility-fetish
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#3648 Beef-Clef

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 01:15 PM

Instagram didn’t disenfranchise working class voters due to failing to represent them for 40 years.

Instagram didn’t tell Hillary not to ever set foot in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin during her campaign.

 

That's just stating the obvious, we all know that. My point revolves around the continuing problem of people voting against their own best interests for completely asinine reasons SUCH AS instagram/twitter trends, memes, lulz, and party affiliation just to name a few.


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#3649 Tina

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:30 PM

What a disconnected-ivory-tower-ass take.

Yeah people are dying overseas, black people being killed by cops, children are being jailed, people are losing their insurance and their homes, and 70+% of the country lives paycheck to paycheck. At least no one is saying cuss words tho!!!!

I will add that right wing pundits on twitter and TV always feed that same line. I’m pretty sure you shouldn’t listen to advice from your competitors.

Here’s a really good analysis of the “civility fetish’ issue
https://m.soundcloud...civility-fetish

 

I'm not sure how on Earth you get "At least no one is saying cuss words tho!!!!" out of my post. That is not at all how I'm defining "decency" here. Decency is not rigging the system, trying to treat all people fairly and with compassion, not pulling awful shit just because you're blinded with fear or anger, etc. Basically not doing the things you're listing off.

 

I know I shouldn't really expect better out of this topic, but it really seems like you're looking to pick fights, by coming up with the worst, most twisted interpretation of what people who probably mostly agree with you say.

 

But hey, you're entitled to think all this country's problems will be solved with anger, vitriol, and voting based on who you want to say "fuck you" to the most. Me, I'd like politicians to tell me what good they can do rather than who I should be mad at.


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#3650 Robby V

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 02:53 PM

There is a difference between weaponizing anger and fear to battle systematic racism and exploitation and doing so to enforce those things.

A politician can tell you what they’ll do for you AND tell you who is responsible for it.

Like the tweet referenced in that podcast:

“people who earnestly use "alt-left" have the comprehension of my dog -- she can parse tone but not content”

I’m not picking fights, I’m critiquing other people’s views and expecting the same.
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#3651 Tina

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 04:34 PM

I don't think a mentality of "it's okay as long as my side is doing it" is beneficial long-term either.

 

If you're going to critique something, then you need to first have a base of understanding of that thing. If someone tells you "the sky is blue" and you interpret that as "the sky is red" and then launch into a critique of how wrong their statement is, you may be right that the sky isn't actually red, but that person never claimed that to begin with and actually agrees with you that the sky isn't red.


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#3652 Beef-Clef

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Posted 11 October 2018 - 05:33 PM

There's an alt-everything out there somewhere. Either way I prefer dealing with the alt-right than the standard-right because from my experience when they finally get some pussy they mellow out and start voting blue.


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#3653 TV's Frink

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 08:51 AM

WTF are you doing USA Today?

https://www.usatoday...umn/1560533002/

https://www.usatoday...-ed/1595500002/
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#3654 John MFer

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 10:13 AM

 

Instagram didn’t disenfranchise working class voters due to failing to represent them for 40 years.

Instagram didn’t tell Hillary not to ever set foot in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin during her campaign.

 

That's just stating the obvious, we all know that. My point revolves around the continuing problem of people voting against their own best interests for completely asinine reasons SUCH AS instagram/twitter trends, memes, lulz, and party affiliation just to name a few.

 

Ugh, anti-abortion single issue voters are my pet peeve. You're against abortion? That's fine, I have no issue with that. You're going to vote against your own self interests and the good of the country because of this one issue? Fuck you, you worthless fuck. 


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#3655 Disposable Hero

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Posted 12 October 2018 - 09:31 PM

I think election day NEEDS to be a national holiday where everything is closed. Everyone would take it more seriously that way.

 

Several years ago, when I got back from Korea, I was in between jobs and needed work bad, so I took a job at one of those Amazon warehouses. It was the night shift, 6 PM to 6 AM and all I did was sleep and go to work. I didn't get to vote that year because I was too exhausted to get the mail-in ballot thing straightened out in time (plus, even after I did, there was about a 50% chance of not even getting it in the mail), and in Phoenix voting is/was such a shitty ordeal that you have to stand in line for 5 hours to do it and I needed that time for sleep. As for people who worked the day shift, you risk getting fired if you take time off for any reason. Thousands of people who worked at that job and similar jobs were in the same boat.

If I could +1 this more than once I would. I don't have a whole lot to add to any conversation here, but I did want to add my own story from my time in Iraq circa 2005 during their first election cycle. Sure we can argue about our presence there and what ultimate goals we achieved (or didn't achieve rather). But that is a discussion I don't care to get into, it's been discussed enough. On to the point!

 

2005 was their first free election after Hussein was ousted. I was in the city of Fallujah on election day. This was a couple of months after the big offensive in Nov of 2004, but there were still plenty of pockets of insurgency around the city. Hearing bullets whiz past my head and seeing IEDs and grenades explode around the city were commonplace. Despite this, nearly 70% of the eligible voting population turned out for their first election. These innocent folks of a war torn country literally risked their lives to vote. The day of the election we most definitely saw a spike in attacks around the city, mostly aimed at polling sites. Yet people still turned out.

 

In America, during presidential cycles, we usually sit around 50-55%. That's fucking sad, bottom line. We can bemoan a lot of things wrong with the process in this country, but the onus is still on us as individuals to make it happen if feasible. Situations like weener described make me sad as a man who swore an oath to this country and risked my life and mental health for its ideals. I would consider myself as jaded as many here, but there are still options with mail-in voting and early voting. You can be cynical regarding voting, and that's not totally unfounded, but it's the system we have right now.


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#3656 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 02:58 PM

Just throwing this out there (not arguing or addressing anyone in particular but piggybacking off the general convo).

 

When it comes to people being cynical about voting, I'd say those in Robby and my camp are cynical about it because straight up no matter how you vote or who you vote for, there are problems that voting just simply cannot solve in our current system. All of US political discourse is centered around voting and how all of our problems will be solved if just more people vote, and if those god damn youngins stop being so lazy. Voting is necessary, but at best it takes a minor amount of power away from the worst of the worst. That's a worthy cause, but will only serve to minimize harm. Voting is damage control. Damage control is important, but unless there are actually candidates or initiatives that get to the root of systemic issues (there aren't, and there likely will not be anytime soon because that tends to be heavily discouraged in American politics), then electoral politics will never be a driving force behind progressive change. 

 

You need systemic solutions to systemic problems, and voting is insufficient given the options we have. By all means vote if you are able to. If you have the money, time, transportation and freedom to vote, go do it. It's the bare minimum possible effort you can put in. But treating voting as the be-all end-all of political change is such a dangerous way to address these issues because voting alone will not solve the biggest problems we have. Even if you get progressive candidates in office, they won't be able to get shit done without pressure being applied from popular movements. The New Deal wasn't passed by FDR (a reactionary and a huge fucking racist despite passing social democratic policies) out of the good will of his heart. The New Deal was passed to appease the militant labor movement that was bordering full-on working class insurrection with massive strikes and military skirmishes between workers and armed forces.

 

Using recent events as an example (sorry I've been reading several books about this lately...hit me up for reading recommendations), how do we fight something like prison slavery? Which candidate can I vote for who will work on ending the prison industrial complex? Not even someone like Bernie Sanders ran on a platform like that. And he was the furthest left major candidate in my lifetime who I'd still consider a centrist. Marijuana legalization is a start, but even that is only one avenue the incarceration system uses to fill prisons with minorities, and many of the people who suffered from the war on drugs still remain behind bars with their humanity and basic rights taken away. The only way to affect systemic change is to attack these issues directly. Want to get rid of prison slavery? Start by attacking the economic incentive for companies to use prison slave labor: by organizing and getting prisoners to be paid a more fair wage for their labor. You can only end mass incarceration by making it not economically feasible for mass incarceration to exist.

 

If we see more stuff like the recent national prison strike on a wider scale and for a longer duration and with organized pressure from people like us on the outside, then (and this can only work with a massive amount of work and organization both inside and outside of prison walls):

 

1) Wages of prison labor will rise.

2) Prison labor will not be as profitable in the supply chain of companies that fund prisons by utilizing their slave labor.

3) Major corporations will seek alternative sources of cheap labor (likely sweatshops in the global south, which is another issue that we can talk about another time).

4) Prisons will not be able to afford, or not be incentivized, to incarcerate greater and greater magnitudes of marginalized people to fill prison cells.

5) The Prison Industrial Complex will lose a lot of their power.

 

Organizers can use electoral gains in a diversity of tactics to put pressure in different areas to push legislation through that helps advance these causes, but those electoral gains will not solve any problems alone because they don't attack issues systemically. 

 

You can clearly see this with candidates like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. She was so strong on so many issues, but as soon as she entered the sphere of the Democratic Party, she walked back many of her stances on important issues, fell in line, and even gave in to the bullshit civility politics many in this thread love by calling John McCain an "unparalleled example of human decency." And we're talking about the most progressive congressional candidate who was supposed to be some shining champion of the left. 

 

We'll see results when we start attacking the pockets of the people who actually run the country. Progressive change comes about when people organize on a large scale :D Political discourse needs to extend beyond just voting and electoral politics. 

 

I can't stress enough that I am not saying that voting is useless because that's how I feel people are going to take this. It's necessary, but it's insufficient (and honestly, direct-action oriented organizing is pretty good for getting people to vote as well because movement building is effective and important...just ask the left-wing of the DSA. The one that doesn't focus on entry-ism in the Democratic Party lol). 


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#3657 Disposable Hero

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Posted 16 October 2018 - 10:01 PM

Damage control is pretty fucking important considering the jackwagon we have sitting in the White House currently. I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but despite your disclaimers, you do really seem to have a disparaging attitude towards voting. Yeah it's the minimum, but man, when half our country doesn't even do the minimum how do you expect people to give a shit about various forms of activism? Voting is simply the first step in the process, imo. It makes people feel invested and may motivate them to learn/do more. It's absolutely just as important as everything else you have mentioned throughout this thread. That's all I'm saying. When I personally witness the hardships another nation went through to cast their vote, and then come home to see inclement weather influencing turnout here, it's fucking sad. 


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#3658 Beef-Clef

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Posted Yesterday, 07:50 AM

Sad!


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#3659 KarlGerm

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Posted Yesterday, 07:51 AM

Damage control is pretty fucking important considering the jackwagon we have sitting in the White House currently. I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post, but despite your disclaimers, you do really seem to have a disparaging attitude towards voting. Yeah it's the minimum, but man, when half our country doesn't even do the minimum how do you expect people to give a shit about various forms of activism? Voting is simply the first step in the process, imo. It makes people feel invested and may motivate them to learn/do more. It's absolutely just as important as everything else you have mentioned throughout this thread. That's all I'm saying. When I personally witness the hardships another nation went through to cast their vote, and then come home to see inclement weather influencing turnout here, it's fucking sad. 

 

Reminder: the jackwagon sitting in the White House is there by losing the popular vote by 3 million votes. The 51 members of the Supreme Court who approved Kavanaugh represent less than 1/3 of the country when it comes down to it. The Republican Party knows these things and that is how they succeed and get what they want done done. They rely on things like the Supreme Court (an undemocratic institution), The Electoral College (which they can easily tweak to their advantage with gerrymandering) and voter suppression (which I can rattle off at least 3 huge instances of that happening in several "red" states that population wise have more People of Color than republicans, but who can't vote for various bullshit reasons like the several listed previously in this thread.) I don't think Sam, Robby or I are saying "don't vote, it's a waste of time and pointless lol." We're saying people who think it's the utmost form of making our voice heard in this country and getting things done in our interest are wrong and they need to do more than just vote once every two years (or even every local election) and that people need to stop just thinking that's the only thing they can do. The cards are so stacked against the will of the people and we can't just vote that away. That's not how the system works and it's designed to not work that way. They can say we have a "democracy" all they want but it's an illusion. It sucks to realize and think about and is insanely depressing and it takes a lot of energy out of the tank when things feel hopeless but it's all a matter of rebounding and trying to come up with ways to organize and make shit happen in ways like Sam just pointed out.

 

Voting is a lot like the rhetoric going on about Climate Change now...people are sharing articles about how if you consume 30% less meat each year, if you stop using straws at starbucks...if you cut this out of your life, if you do better as an individual, blah blah blah...you can help not boil our planet alive by 2030. All these things are objectively true. And yes, the world would be a better place if everyone made the effort to do that, or find alternatives to plastic, etc....the ACTUAL problem is 71% of the emissions causing climate change come from just 100 Companies. In the same way that voting is important but not going to make an actual dent, making your own efforts to be as green as possible isn't going to make a dent in climate change that matters. The difference is, the companies themselves actually have the means (money) to make drastic changes to take care of it but they aren't going to invest in that because all they give a shit about is maximizing profits. And you can't do that by having to drastically change the organization.


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#3660 Robby V

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Posted Yesterday, 08:43 AM

It’ll be interesting to see if anything happens with those dipshit Proud Boys.

Cuomo is telling the state police to investigate them in NY. Cops always let right wing groups slide though.

Could you imagine if anti fascists were jumping people 10:1 in front of a cop? They’d be shot.

Either way spread this video around if you don’t want far-right gangs to keep getting a pass. A lot of people don’t know about these weirdos still and it’d be good if their first impression is a bad one.


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