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Donald Trump Is Your New President.


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#4126 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 18 August 2019 - 06:15 PM

I'm kindof appalled at how many Shizzies stick to the "one person doesn't make a difference" attitude.  No, your one cup won't be THE cup that prevents my niece's children from having breathable air.  But culture is a cumulative thing, and if you want it to change, you should participate.

 

My point wasn't that "one person doesn't make a difference" or that "individual actions don't matter" in general. Nobody is advocating for apathy.

 

I said individualist consumer politics aren't going to be effective in fighting climate change. By focusing the discussion on consumer habits, you're shifting the blame from the people who are actually responsible for mass ecological destruction. Climate change is a direct result of an economic system predicated on infinite growth on a planet with finite resources. Even millions of people recycling their plastic water bottles or not using styrofoam won't save the planet as long as the relations of production remain as they are. Literally nothing other than a complete restructuring of the global economy can reduce the coming climate catastrophe, and that can only come through well-organized mass action because nobody in power is going to give enough of a shit to change things.

 

And I'm not saying "we're fucked so you might as well do nothing." There are a lot of things people can do to begin moving towards a more ecologically sustainable society. You can take to the streets with groups like Extinction Rebellion. You can get involved in mutual aid work with groups like Food Not Bombs to reclaim and redistribute food waste and empower your local community. You can work to build economic dual power structures like Cooperation Jackson to make your communities less dependent on the greater exploitative and wasteful system. Or you can unionize your workplace to take even just a little bit of power out of the hands of the people who exploit your labor. 

 

My point is that you have to actually organize, or materially support those who are organizing, if you want to make any sort of ecological impact. Recycle as much as you can, sure. But if your actions are limited to making more "sustainable" consumer choices, you're mostly just making yourself feel better.


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#4127 Leonidus

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:22 PM

I'd be interested to hear what leftist positions any of you disagree with and why?


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#4128 brodan

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 07:11 PM

none come to mind for me off the top of my head, id love to hear which ones you had in mind that youre trying to use to stir up discourse. all the major positions i can think of I agree with:

 

- gun control: absolute no brainer. we are the only fucking country in the world dealing with this. hardcore background checks. stop selling to domestic abusers. ban all assault rifles. im yet to see an example of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy.

 

- universal healthcare: studies and research have shown that this ends up being cheaper in the long run, and ya know, poor people actually have a chance to survive when they get sick. diabetes meds cost $2 to make and they charge $400 for it.

 

- free tuition/debt-forgiveness: this is the only one im not entirely decided on. free tuition definitely appears to be working in other countries in europe. at the very least it should absolutely be more controlled because its fucking insanely expensive and the job market for new grads is shit and mostly privileged white people are the only ones making it. some amount of debt needs to be forgiven because its a bubble thats going to tank the economy for the next generaiton. however, i dont know what to do re debt for like doctors who end up making 400k+ a year. yea they get stuck with tons of med school debt, but they can also pay it off in a matter of years instead of decades

 

- reparations: my understanding is that the huge wealth disparity that exists between POC and non-POC can still be traced all the way back to slavery and if we can spend trillions on the military every year than we can afford to give POC a chance at a fair existence.

 

- abolish ICE: yes. do it. now. fuck ICE. its never been about safety or due process. its about skin color and you cant even try to argue that its not. there's children dying in fucking cages.

 

- green new deal: what are you fucking simple? of course. every scientist on the planet agrees man-made climate change is real and this planet isnt gonna make it past 2040 at this rate. get it the fuck together or we are all so fucked. baby boomers dont care about it because they'll all be dead by then.


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#4129 M-H

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 07:42 PM

I'm not sold on reparations as of yet. I have to think there are better things that can be done on a grander, societal/institutional level rather than just handing out some checks.

Something needs to be done about health care so that it's affordable for everyone. But what exactly? Don't most countries with universal health care have extremely high income tax rates compared to us? People here would lose their minds, and people like me who make less than $50k may not be able to make ends meet if their income tax nearly doubles. How do we pay for it and make it not suck? I've heard people in some of those countries also wait a super long amount of time for treatment or surgeries, and those who can afford will just come have them done in the USA.
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#4130 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 08:35 PM

If racism is an institution and whites are still the majority, I'm not sure how reparations will fix things. 


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#4131 TV's Frink

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 08:38 PM

I'm not a fan of the Leftorium.
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#4132 Arm Cannon

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 08:52 PM

reparations are an inelegant band aid on the problem of institutional racism - affirmative action is better but it has really bad optics

I think the heart is in the right place but it’s not gonna fix anything. That said: fuck man I don’t know how to fix this shit other than aggressive anti racist education and letting old people die out.
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#4133 kareshi

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:01 PM

Old people are dying out while continuing to gerrymander like crazy and disenfranchising brown people. When there are 17 Republicans left in the country they will still have an even balance in the electoral college
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#4134 brodan

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:15 PM

Old people are dying out while continuing to gerrymander like crazy and disenfranchising brown people. When there are 17 Republicans left in the country they will still have an even balance in the electoral college

 

yea, thats another position i can proudly stand by. abolish the electoral college. its a completely broken and shitty system. why is my vote worth 1/4 of the vote of someone in montana. so the election will be controlled by the couple of most populated cities in the country? good. if thats where the largest voice is, thats what should be heard. better than fucking ohio deciding every election or whatever like it does currently


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#4135 weener

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 09:53 PM

I think when a person argues for reparations these days, they aren't simply talking about cutting a check, there are many other affirmative action-like things involved. For instance, getting serious about ending housing discrimination, hiring discrimination, unequal access to education, and other things that are supposed to be illegal but still happen all the time.
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#4136 urvile

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 10:12 PM

There definitely needs to be some wealth distribution. Seems like debating the merits of reparations is a moot point though. As a nation, we can’t even acknowledge the evils of slavery. Or how we killed off almost all the indigenous people. Or even why we had the fucking Civil War. Right or wrong, I don’t see black people getting a check anytime soon
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#4137 Robby V

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 04:42 AM

Let the non-violent criminals out of prison and put the cops in prison.

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#4138 TV's Frink

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:43 AM

reparations are an inelegant band aid on the problem of institutional racism - affirmative action is better but it has really bad optics

I think the heart is in the right place but it’s not gonna fix anything. That said: fuck man I don’t know how to fix this shit other than aggressive anti racist education and letting old people die out.



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#4139 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:10 AM

I think when a person argues for reparations these days, they aren't simply talking about cutting a check

 

See, the longer I see this debate go on, the less I think this. 

 

I'm pretty sure if I walk into the more lefty spaces of the internet and say something like, "we need structural reforms more than we need direct payouts", I'm going to get called a racist who thinks black people can't handle money. 


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#4140 Robby V

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 07:21 AM

Sick hypothetical bro. That totally happens in your imagined leftist space. Nice.
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