72 replies to this topic

[HNIC]

So all promoters are essentially a step away from pay to play? OK I will keep that in mind as I fairly take care of my bands that I should be cashing in. What do you offer, entertainment...to the 5 people you brought...usually a racket to those you didnt. Sorry I thought everybody should put some work in for a greater goal, didnt know you are one of the prima donnas...

[chalupacabra]

Hey - that's still 5 more than your staff brought, and they're gonna get paid :-)

So what should a band that draws 5 people @ $6 a head get paid for future reference?

Unless those 5 people drop $100 each on bar tabs...nothing. Draw more next time.

[HNIC]

Hey - that's still 5 more than your staff brought, and they're gonna get paid :-)

So what should a band that draws 5 people @ $6 a head get paid for future reference?

You never answered this direct question...

[skeksis]

Hey - that's still 5 more than your staff brought, and they're gonna get paid :-)

So what should a band that draws 5 people @ $6 a head get paid for future reference?

they should get paid whatever they can negotiate... Realistically something like 100% of the door plus 10% of the bar tab. Cause again, that's 5 people who would otherwise be home watching dr oz & the venue ought to be thrilled to have them.

[HNIC]

So I should lose 20% to allow you to grace our stage and amaze your 5 friends?

[Quezo]

This convo feels like it's about to get out of hand.

What I end up seeing is that no matter how hard you flyer, or post bulletins, or tell your friends and family: sometimes people don't want to go out. In this day and age, the economy being what it is and everybody hurting for cash, we all get a bit touchy.

Like, I have wanted to go to my local bar on a tuesday night, where it's only dj's for awhile, and it just doesn't happen like it used to.

Drinks cost money = drink at home.

There's a cover charge = Discouraged from going to that venue, or go to a venue that has no cover charge.

Why drink tokens? Why a cover charge? Sometimes people want to pump their quarters into a jukebox instead of hearing a band.

I have left a bar because the band was making me ill. I have left because the soundman really sucked.

I have gone to a bar I hate because I knew the soundman and the band were good, hence a good show.

The fact of the matter is there are so many variables to making a show work, that it's nearly impossible to predict.

Having plans to go to a show all week can get trumped by the girlfriend wanting to go dancing. Solution = I like sex.

I guess I don't really know what I'm trying to say here except that if we start doing math and pointing fingers and having
blame for each other then that sucks balls.

Let's hug it out bitches.

[MikeyWretch]

HUGS AND DRUGS!

[HNIC]

All valid points. I really want to go see FUCKED UP, CAGEMATCH tonight but I have to be realistic that a babysitter is gonna set me back. I was just generally pointing out there is a definite lack of work that bands are doing as of late, and it falls in our hands. Now that I know the correct way to run a venue is to lose 20% percent of sales and free staffing out of my pocket so some acoustic crooner can cry about his last GF to his current one I know that I too will be outta business soon...

[chalupacabra]

All of those costs are the venue's cost for making the decision to open their doors & have nothing whatsoever to do with which band they hire.

The band is providing a service, just like your staff. Except you expect a band at near-zero cost to 1) be well rehearsed (say 6 hrs prep for the gig, 4 members x say $20/hr = value $480); 2) provide instruments amps drums (average value $1000 per person = $4000, but spread over many gigs; 3) haul their own gear and perform (when I did weddings, I got paid $100/hr = another $400-800); and 4) promote the heck out the gig & your sorry venue (hard to estimate value, but it's not insignificant).

And yet bands all over Phx play and consider $50 + 2 drinks a real good night AND get shit for being lazy? Bah. Maybe if you paid bands more than a tiny fraction of their worth, you could reasonably expect them to work even harder. But really, for them it's a cost with no benefit. The irrationality hurts to think about. The only ones losing $ are the band members.

I have spent a stupid amount of money on gear in my life and never have I thought of it in terms of an investment that I should be able to recoup on. Nor have I ever thought driving from my house in Tempe to play a show in Phoenix warranted being given $ because of the travel cost. When you want to be in a band its just what you do.

As far as paying bands "more than a tiny fraction of their worth." If you're going to talk about this in business terms you have to acknowledge supply and demand. If a band plays Tyler's bar and brings 5 people, guess what their "worth" is. I think his detail of the costs associated with a bar that operates as a venue vs one that operates solely as a bar are spot on.

[HNIC]

No no I have to pay bands to not draw, plus a percentage of the sales, plus staff outta my pocket...

[Rial]

Tyler I want your bike...give it to me next time I play there as payment.

[Jacki O.]

HUG IT OUT

[HNIC]

You have to draw over your usual 6 people, and then yes of course I will overcompensate with a European Cyclo Cross bike as payment, makes complete sense...

No no I have to pay bands to not draw, plus a percentage of the sales, plus staff outta my pocket...

Wait I already sorta do this haha...

[Quezo]

You have to draw over your usual 6 people, and then yes of course I will overcompensate with a European Cyclo Cross bike as payment, makes complete sense...

No no I have to pay bands to not draw, plus a percentage of the sales, plus staff outta my pocket...

Wait I already sorta do this haha...

I want your bike too. I will play for you. I will bring one person.

I like how you quoted yourself. That doesn't happen nearly enough around here.

[eraser]

Here's the email that I sent:

Hi there, _____!

This is Jose Gonzalez from Dangerville.

You recently contacted us via our MySpace page about performing at the Rhythm Room on Thursday, June 3rd! So, sorry about the delay in getting back to you. Things have just been super-busy.

It sounds awesome, though!

Before we entirely commit, though, I just wanted to be clear on the terms of performance.

Generally, for 15 minutes of performance, our going rate is $250, for 30 minutes - $450, and for 60 minutes is $850. If there is a cut of the door that is to be received, assuming we've been compensated appropriately, we generally distribute our cut amongst the other bands that are performing.

Also, we recently sold our pilot, "Light After Dark" to BET / Viacom. We're really excited about it!

"Light After Dark" is a weekly showcase of non-African-American musicians and performers and it will be airing afterhours on BET in the fall.

All that is to say that Viacom would actually own broadcast rights (across tv, web, radio, print or video text messaging) of any film and video of our performance and any repurposing of the footage. It actually might be possible to feature some of the other bands that might be performing, too!

So, I hope all that is cool.

Could you send me your fax number so that our legal team can send you the paper work?

Thanks so much!

- jose

I haven't heard back.