580 replies to this topic

[TrueStar]

Tackle: No I don't.

[Nario]

Where does that coincide with the VGMix timeline? The last VGMix panel I remember was either MAG 6? or maybe 7. 5 wasn't in the hilton, I remember that much and the last VGMix meeting I remember WAS in the Hilton.

VGMix 2 went down sometime late 2005/early 2006. MAGFest 5 was not at the Hilton, but rather the hotel before it (Sheraton Premiere), and it was held in Jan. 2007. So, not too much longer after VGMix 2 went down, a panel for VGMix 3 was held at MAGFest 5--I was not there for it, as MAGFest 6 was my first time to go, but I have watched the hour-long presentation (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OPZPDKLY).

What IS the overall goal of VGMix as you guys would perceive it?

I really don't think I'm the right person to ask, but I'll throw in my two cents anyways:

The goal of VGMix, in my eyes, is to encourage both the artist and the listener in every way possible. VGMix has music, so people will come. Some people will stay for the community/forums, and possibly get involved with the RPG system of the site, which ultimately leads to reviewing songs and giving feedback. This then encourages the artists to make more music for the site, in hopes of not only improving, but to also receive better reviews, get recognized, have fun, climb the ladder, etc., which in turn encourages the listener to stick around some more. Rinse and repeat.

Granted, I was pretty annoying back at VGMix 2--I'm sure some still think I am!--but I have very good memories of VGMix 2 and 2.5, and I can look back at it more maturely now than I could while living it back in high school (YEAH).

[KyleJCrb]

I personally kind of feel that the RPG system, while a cool idea, was needlessly complicated in the long run, and had a lot of aspects that discouraged new folks from joining and participating in the site. Requiring reviews to post songs was a good idea in theory, but it made the bar of entry quite high for the newbie and resulted in throwaway reviews that were intended to just get access to posting a song. The fact is, some people just aren't reviewers. In fact, most people aren't (hence why VGMix ended up with like only 2-3 people who regularly wrote in-depth reviews.)
A new VGMix could integrate some of the RPG elements, but I feel it would greatly benefit from having a scaled-back implementation to make it easier for the average user to understand and take advantage of. I look back at the old plan for VGMix 3 and while it could do a lot of really cool stuff, it was a bit overly complex and intimidating, even for someone familiar with the system in place on VGMix 2. That's just my two cents on it.

[Ramaniscence]

I personally kind of feel that the RPG system, while a cool idea, was needlessly complicated in the long run, and had a lot of aspects that discouraged new folks from joining and participating in the site. Requiring reviews to post songs was a good idea in theory, but it made the bar of entry quite high for the newbie and resulted in throwaway reviews that were intended to just get access to posting a song. The fact is, some people just aren't reviewers. In fact, most people aren't (hence why VGMix ended up with like only 2-3 people who regularly wrote in-depth reviews.)
A new VGMix could integrate some of the RPG elements, but I feel it would greatly benefit from having a scaled-back implementation to make it easier for the average user to understand and take advantage of. I look back at the old plan for VGMix 3 and while it could do a lot of really cool stuff, it was a bit overly complex and intimidating, even for someone familiar with the system in place on VGMix 2. That's just my two cents on it.

This is essentially why I was going with the "What are failures, successes, and what's the over all goal" questions. Jumping right in and saying "We need to use the RPG system what does it need to do?" is thinking too far down the line. We need think of what the site means, at ground level, in words, and then start shaping features and functions around that. We would have to create a functional rewards system with rewards for growth, but not penalties for lack of growth. These would have to be weighted based on what's important, what's a primary feature, what's secondary, etc. Gamification/an RPG system is the right IDEA but only as a basic concept. We'd have to figure out WHAT the site is about and THEN figure out how we get there.

We know it needs to let users post, rate, review, download, and stream songs, but why? What is the goal of that? Without that it's just a file dump.

[Brandon Strader]

Achievements / trophies

++addictive element

[zyko]

Achievements / trophies

++addictive element

for posterity. it even makes lego harry potter addictive

[Nario]

I personally kind of feel that the RPG system, while a cool idea, was needlessly complicated in the long run, and had a lot of aspects that discouraged new folks from joining and participating in the site.

Really? When I joined and saw that I could level up, I thought that was so cool. I was immediately ready to figure out how to level up!

Requiring reviews to post songs was a good idea in theory, but it made the bar of entry quite high for the newbie and resulted in throwaway reviews that were intended to just get access to posting a song.

Now, I'm not saying that I agree with this, but DoD requires something similar: anyone who votes in DoD must have a minimum of 50 posts on these forums.

...I'm not even sure if this is still enforced!

Achievements / trophies

++addictive element

omg

Post a WIP
Get a song to stay in the highest tier for over a year
Review 5 songs
Review 50 songs
Join the forums
Make 1000 posts without being banned (slow and steady wins the race!)

Thanks, BS, now you got me wanting VGMix 3 with achievements. I'd try my hardest to get them all, too.

[ShawnPhase]

[Nario]

I may just be the loneliest splicer of them all.

[Brandon Strader]

Achievements / trophies

++addictive element

omg

Post a WIP
Get a song to stay in the highest tier for over a year
Review 5 songs
Review 50 songs
Join the forums
Make 1000 posts without being banned (slow and steady wins the race!)

Thanks, BS, now you got me wanting VGMix 3 with achievements. I'd try my hardest to get them all, too.

Mazedude Award: Post over 50 Remixes

[mercatfat]

i just wanted to say that if the OCR-provided redone soundtrack to SSF2T HD Remix was truly the best the community could offer, it's really no shock that they draw so much criticism in their judging.

i've always though of remixing (at least where VG is concerned) as a chance to take a song and keep its soul but basically upscale it, for lack of a better term, to sound like it did in the author's head or what he wishes it could have been despite sound channel limitations, or put a new spin on a song that retains the soul and meaning, but gives it a bit of a twist. that soundtrack... it met roughly in the middle of those two, but never got much beyond the mediocre in execution.

but that's just my interjected pennies.

edit: oops! i missed that this ended up having another gigantic page of posts and progress!

[tibone]

We know it needs to let users post, rate, review, download, and stream songs, but why? What is the goal of that? Without that it's just a file dump.

IMHO, VGmix and a system like it, it's about the relationship between artist and listener.
As an artist, i love to get feedback (positive or not) about my songs, to see people's reaction and to hear people's opinions.

As a listener, i love the possibility of staying in touch with the author, asking (or reading) what were their motivation behind a song, why they did something like they did and etc, and listening to the songs.

To me, more important than reaching a gigantic audience, it's to create a bridge between the artists and the listeners.

Sometimes, just a single "hey man, loved that song", goes a long way.

Nowdays, DoD and OCR are the only way to get that interaction, posting a song on youtube might help, but in reality, not much, because most people don't comment on the song, and when they do, it's usually "CAN I HAS GUEETAR TABS, plz lolz?".

The only difference between DoD and OCR are the standards, that in DoD allows everyone to get that interaction and feedback.

[soudou]

All this talk just makes me miss the community of vgmix. That's the thing that always kept me coming back.

All the great (and not so great) music was a nice bonus though. But it was always the people in the community who gave it its own personality. There's a lot of cool people I would have never even known to exist had it not been for vgmix. That's what I miss the most.





Maybe that's just me though.

It's definitely not just you.

I'm with you, Mika/Kilu. The VGMix 2.5 forums were the best, even without songs!

Glad I'm not alone in feeling that 2.5 was the glory days of vgmix as a community.

[KyleJCrb]

I personally kind of feel that the RPG system, while a cool idea, was needlessly complicated in the long run, and had a lot of aspects that discouraged new folks from joining and participating in the site.

Really? When I joined and saw that I could level up, I thought that was so cool. I was immediately ready to figure out how to level up!

Your reactions to things aren't typical of most people on the internet, Nario. You are an idealistic guy in a world of cynicism.

[Rize]

The reason I don't like the idea of a DISLIKE button is because, especially for something involving personal art, it is very negative and not constructive. To actually vote down someone's artwork in a place where we want people to be encouraged to grow is kind of vindictive and doesn't particularly add to anything at all. That's just psychology.

And let me repeat that a like button only measures something's popularity (which is mostly attributed to the source material in vgmixing). To get a measure of quality, you need the dislike/down-vote button as well.