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Maverick Rising


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#46 Bonkers

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:00 PM





But like I said in an earlier post, the album to me, isn't as great as I thought it would be. They hyped it up for nothing imo.

I think this has been the case for pretty much every album of theirs sadly. But there´s always AT LEAST one song worth the wait.


There are a few songs on the album that I really like and a lot of their albums have really nice arrangements but I do agree that some fall short.

Yeah, every album has been so thoroughly polished in scattered areas that it draws attention to the parts of the album that aren't done as well. As a result, it's really difficult to actually enjoy an OCRemix album, and instead we only end up keeping those select tracks that we like or to which we are drawn or attached, while everything else is subject to the harsh, conclusive gavel that is our collective Delete key.


Yeah when I listened to the first disc of Maverick Rising I was like "Ok, why did they put Willrock as the 2nd song on the CD when his track is clearly the most polished of the entire disc?" It just detracts from the rest of it. Each CD has songs like that and it really makes me mad.

I'll admit that some artists are better and post production that others but those people should be asking their betters for tips and pointers so they can evolve as musicians.

The most polished of the disc??

Seriously?
I have to completely disagree with that lol.
Speaking of pure production quality, despite the song being great. It's far from being the best. But that's Will Rock's style. And I wouldn't change it for anything.


IMO 99% of the songs on this album are worth keeping. That's one of the great things about Rockman music is that there is hardly no filler tracks and this album perfectly represents that.

Anyone who thinks otherwise, I disagree with.

If ever there was an album that could be considered OCR's most consistent(aside from "The Answer" http://ocremix.org/a...-tribute-album-), and "Their best" it's this one.
True, you can't please everyone. But if you are a fan of Rockman X's music, then there is absolutely 0 reason why you can't enjoy nearly every song on this album.

And this is coming from the OCR Cynic himself. I'm not just saying this because I am on it either. Quite frankly, nearly everyone did songs that are a million times better than mine.


http://vgmdb.net/album/402
It's hardly any different than this for example. Which is an official album that has a bunch of different people doing their own and mixing their own in their own styles.

#47 Lucavi00

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:16 PM






But like I said in an earlier post, the album to me, isn't as great as I thought it would be. They hyped it up for nothing imo.

I think this has been the case for pretty much every album of theirs sadly. But there´s always AT LEAST one song worth the wait.


There are a few songs on the album that I really like and a lot of their albums have really nice arrangements but I do agree that some fall short.

Yeah, every album has been so thoroughly polished in scattered areas that it draws attention to the parts of the album that aren't done as well. As a result, it's really difficult to actually enjoy an OCRemix album, and instead we only end up keeping those select tracks that we like or to which we are drawn or attached, while everything else is subject to the harsh, conclusive gavel that is our collective Delete key.


Yeah when I listened to the first disc of Maverick Rising I was like "Ok, why did they put Willrock as the 2nd song on the CD when his track is clearly the most polished of the entire disc?" It just detracts from the rest of it. Each CD has songs like that and it really makes me mad.

I'll admit that some artists are better and post production that others but those people should be asking their betters for tips and pointers so they can evolve as musicians.


Quite frankly, nearly everyone did songs that are a million times better than mine.


I wouldn't say that. I really enjoyed your version of MMX4 Opening stage even though it was just an edit/reversion of that joke DoD submission from a while back.

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#48 Bonkers

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:30 PM







But like I said in an earlier post, the album to me, isn't as great as I thought it would be. They hyped it up for nothing imo.

I think this has been the case for pretty much every album of theirs sadly. But there´s always AT LEAST one song worth the wait.


There are a few songs on the album that I really like and a lot of their albums have really nice arrangements but I do agree that some fall short.

Yeah, every album has been so thoroughly polished in scattered areas that it draws attention to the parts of the album that aren't done as well. As a result, it's really difficult to actually enjoy an OCRemix album, and instead we only end up keeping those select tracks that we like or to which we are drawn or attached, while everything else is subject to the harsh, conclusive gavel that is our collective Delete key.


Yeah when I listened to the first disc of Maverick Rising I was like "Ok, why did they put Willrock as the 2nd song on the CD when his track is clearly the most polished of the entire disc?" It just detracts from the rest of it. Each CD has songs like that and it really makes me mad.

I'll admit that some artists are better and post production that others but those people should be asking their betters for tips and pointers so they can evolve as musicians.


Quite frankly, nearly everyone did songs that are a million times better than mine.


I wouldn't say that. I really enjoyed your version of MMX4 Opening stage even though it was just an edit/reversion of that joke DoD submission from a while back.


Gotta be specific man. I did both Opening Stages from X4 lolololol

But I know which one you are talking about.

That one was actually decided at the same time when I wrote it that it was the basis for the MR Version. (that's how long it's been since I started work on that song, right up to the last fixes I made a few weeks ago hah)

See: Has both versions with no Voices.

Originally MR version was gonna be an 80's Hair Metal(with vocals by Demonstray and Brandon Strader) song. But when I wrote the arrangement back in 09/10 I didn't have the skills to make it work coherently.



Also: It was never really a joke song. I cried when I wrote the arrangement for the first part of the song that came out for DoD.
The scene was always sad, from the first time I heard it as a kid until now. Lucas Gilbertson's amazingly perfect re-dub just gave it that much MORE impact for me personally.

Though, honestly I can look at it as a joke and seriously at the same time, even though it wasn't intended as a joke.

#49 Lucavi00

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:17 PM

I've put together 'the list' of the songs I'd use to cut the album down to 1.

These are just my opinions of the best songs mind you.

1. 1993 (MMX- Title)
2. Super Fighting Robot X (MMX - Opening Stage)
3. Cybernetic Coelacanth Submarine (MMX - Bubble Crab Stage)
4. Sigma Opus (MMX - Sigma Stage 1)
5. String Chamellotron (MMX - Sting Chameleon)
6. Primulaceae Rosa (MMX8 - Primrose)
7. Duality (MMX5 - X vs. Zero)
8. The Leidenfrost Effect (MMX3 - Blizzard Buffalo)
9. Towering Revolution (MMX - Boomer Kuwanger)
10. Crawfish Crackdown (MMX3 - Crush Crawfish)
11. Sweeping the Storming Skies (MMX - Storm Eagle)
12. Braving the Storm (MMX - Chill Penguin, Dr. Light Capsule)
13. Zero and the Plight of Iris (MMX4 - Opening Stage: Zero) [Epic Dialogue is epic]

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#50 Bahamut

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:00 PM

No Noble Creature of Snow? Intruder Alert? Glorious Crystal Gleam? Iron Will March? Winged Reploid (Revelation)? Countdown to Infinity?

Makes me sad :(

Edit: And Bullet Fists of Lightning Fury!

#51 Lucavi00

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:26 PM

No Noble Creature of Snow? Intruder Alert? Glorious Crystal Gleam? Iron Will March? Winged Reploid (Revelation)? Countdown to Infinity?

Makes me sad :(

Edit: And Bullet Fists of Lightning Fury!


Any of the other Willrock songs I have heard when he made them during the maverick remix battle.

It was a toss up for the Blizzard Buffalo spot but I didn't put both because it would seem redundant to have two of them. I'm not a huge fan of Magna Centipede though I do enjoy Washudolls work. Not a huge fan of X8 (or the ps2 X games in general). They were ok but, to me, not as great as the ones I listed. Same goes for Crystal Snail. I was originally going to put Bullet Fists of Lightning Fury on there but I wanted to keep it around 12 tracks or so to stay true to a real CD ( I say 12 because honestly who would count a 30 second intro track?).

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#52 auriplane

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:29 PM

Same goes for Crystal Snail.


T_T

#53 Lucavi00

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:35 PM



Sorry it just doesn't do it for me.

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#54 Mega Sackman

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:56 PM

Im so glad to see Ansgaros again... so glad.

#55 Classic-wolf

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:05 AM

Merc is right, except about the Beatles, The White Album is perfect.
But the rest i agree, even The Wall has some below par tracks.

And yeah, cut it to 1 cd. People don't need 4+hours of music every "album".

Well, honestly, I would have been disappointed in a big way if it wasn't 4 disks. X series has a lot of music. They didn't even cover all of it rigth.
They did good though, I'll give that to them, didn't just throw a buncha' misfit X tracks together.
They threw a buncha' f'n sweet misfit X tracks together. They all have a decent taste when it comes to this source material. (My favorites, especially Zero Theme 1.)
Although a few too many techno songs for my taste, they did good with what they do.

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#56 KyleJCrb

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:17 AM

And yeah, cut it to 1 cd. People don't need 4+hours of music every "album".

I'd like to know where this criticism comes from, seeing as how only five OCR albums (out of 33 if you aren't counting OST releases) have been over 2 discs. I guess it's a good thing we're ignoring the 19 albums that they released between FF4 in July 2009 and this one, which have all had 2 main discs or less except Wild ARMs.
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#57 Bonkers

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:28 AM

People act as if , that because there is so much music that little effort went into making all the music.

It doesn't happen overnight, everybody pours their hearts out for years making projects like this happen.

And it doesn't even cover all/majority of the songs from MMX1-8 , let alone any related games.

Many games (especially with the advent of Western music where they record a billion variations for "dynamic music") have almost this amount of music.
(Crysis Warhead for example, has over 100 tracks of in game music)


Give a legitimate reason for saying it's bad other than you don't like it, don't care for certain songs or that you already had preconcieved notions about how it was going to be just based on the fact it's OCR. Thus you go in with negative thoughts and react that way almost no matter what. (i've done this many times myself)



Honestly, i'd rather have this just the way it turned out. Rather than say, a 10 song album that is all the same type of music(from a pool of hundreds of songs),where the end results is just going to be the same(though that's not to say I wouldn't do something like that) "they didn't do enough!" "I wish they had done more from *this game* here!" "They didn't cater to the tracks I LIKE, or what I Consider to be better" etc.

I don't know about you guys, but most of us aren't professionals and we do songs that we like and love, and wish to pay tribute to.




Edit:
By the logic that 4 discs is too much, we should all hate this album
and say it's terrible
http://vgmdb.net/album/256

Just because it covers too much music from all the games. /sarcasm.

#58 KyleJCrb

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:38 AM

Basically, there are only big projects like this when the game and the vision of the director justifies it. There aren't going to be four discs of music for Sonic 1, for example, because the soundtrack for that game is really short. However, when you're covering a huge series like MMX or RPGs like Wild ARMs or Final Fantasy, a bigger album is more justified because soundtracks like those have dozens of songs, and the directors feel it's best to pay tribute by covering most or all of the soundtrack. Of course they could break it up into multiple parts and release one disc at a time, but then you just end up with 3 years between releases like the FFV project. And nobody wants that.
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#59 FoxxDragon

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:34 AM

The multiple discs thin is always a debate when it comes up. I can see both sides- though ultimately I don't think it's that big of a deal. More music is good, isn't it? Even if it's not your thing, or you don't think the quality is higher. I dunno. Years ago someone told me that having 5 hours of music for DoD's mag month was "embarrassing". I always figured more music was a good thing. If I were PAYING for it then I would be upset. But theres nothing really lost except maybe some time in terms of listening. Oh well. Delete the ones you dislike.

What I want to come back to though, is this whole.. holding it off until X amount of likes was hit. Was this something everyone on the project agreed to? Was it even announced before hand? because Bonkers disdain for it seems like that wasn't the case. And if it wasn't agreed on, thats frankly, messed up. Those likes aren't going to the artists who put their work into it, it's going into OCR specifically. You could argue that this is fine since they will just get promoted through OCR.. but what if they don't do another contribution after that? If I work on a project and someone decides to hold my work random until THEY get the self promotion they want, that will be the absolutely last time i work with them.

Sometimes I've come across a band that wants me to "like" their page before they let me listen to a song. Not only do I refuse to do that, it sours me on the entire band henceforth. This trick by OCR soured me on this whole album. I would have figured that with Capcom themselves promoting it, that would have been enough.. but nope. Sorry guys, it just bugs me.
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#60 Bahamut

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 05:13 AM

The multiple discs thin is always a debate when it comes up. I can see both sides- though ultimately I don't think it's that big of a deal. More music is good, isn't it? Even if it's not your thing, or you don't think the quality is higher. I dunno. Years ago someone told me that having 5 hours of music for DoD's mag month was "embarrassing". I always figured more music was a good thing. If I were PAYING for it then I would be upset. But theres nothing really lost except maybe some time in terms of listening. Oh well. Delete the ones you dislike.

What I want to come back to though, is this whole.. holding it off until X amount of likes was hit. Was this something everyone on the project agreed to? Was it even announced before hand? because Bonkers disdain for it seems like that wasn't the case. And if it wasn't agreed on, thats frankly, messed up. Those likes aren't going to the artists who put their work into it, it's going into OCR specifically. You could argue that this is fine since they will just get promoted through OCR.. but what if they don't do another contribution after that? If I work on a project and someone decides to hold my work random until THEY get the self promotion they want, that will be the absolutely last time i work with them.

Sometimes I've come across a band that wants me to "like" their page before they let me listen to a song. Not only do I refuse to do that, it sours me on the entire band henceforth. This trick by OCR soured me on this whole album. I would have figured that with Capcom themselves promoting it, that would have been enough.. but nope. Sorry guys, it just bugs me.


I understand what you're saying about the likes, but I think it's going extreme, and this is someone who refused to "Like" artists excepting my very favorites for years (which invariably ended up being limited to the likes of Manowar, Gamma Ray, Helloween, Blind Guardian, Nightwish, etc.). The ultimate goal is to try to get promotion. One of several of OCR's missions (http://ocremix.org/info/Mission - just about everything we do is towards that mission in some way) is to promote the music & artists, and it does so by having a central site the hosts music, and gets people to clickthrough to the site to download a particular song/album/etc. we mention. Then they can find out more about an artist (example: http://ocremix.org/a...nce-of-darkness ), game, etc. and find more songs, potentially by other artists. With the extensive database of information hosted on the site, one of the goals is to expose listeners (especially the more casual listeners who don't go out of their way as much to download new music, much less video game music) to different artists they may not have otherwise heard of, and check them out. Fans of a particular artist who finds a song on the site may then listen to various other artists and turn out to like them, so as a tool for exposure, it allows artists posted on the site to gain new fans on a scale that has not been recreated in the community.

Here's a quote by Dave (djpretzel) on the heart of the matter with a different context, but I think it brings our perspective to light:

We like VGM, dude. We're ALL second-class citizens. That's the main battle we're fighting, at least here at OCR.


Or more succintly, think of any album by multiple artists. It's an aggregate of work by artists, and often doesn't promote a specific artist over the others on it, but the album gets the attention. The same idea on a grander scale is what OCR is.

To get back towards the "Likes" though, the idea was to 1) promote any future news that is of interest (music, artist involvement with other media or release of other music, random game news, etc.) to those who ARE interested but just weren't aware of the ability to do so, and 2) bring discussion about the album out there. Just by looking at the some stats, it was very successful at accomplishing that, and brought more music to new ears faster (and ultimately more people listening to the album). Even if someone doesn't make another song that's posted onto the site in the future, their work is still there for listeners to go back and listen to and if they like it, they can search for more about the artist if they're curious (and with the case of this album, each artist has a link to their homepage right on the album website). As far as I can tell, the promotion works greatly. I've been told The Megas have been very happy with the positive attention their songs has drawn to them for example. The OneUps also value the attention it draws to their music as well, with a select track from each release getting posted.

I can see the point of view about disliking the "Likes" but...it seems shortsighted and essentially wishing that an artist limit trying to promote themselves to certain methods of expression. It's a false connection between an artists' music and the way they promote themselves. For example, what would you say if someone didn't like that you only posted your drawings on TheShizz, or that you posted your drawings on Facebook (someone cited this as a reason for disliking OCR) and decided that it colors their opinions on your artwork? It's a similar analogy, different approach. I don't take it personal if someone does that, or if someone doesn't like the music, doesn't want to participate in such a campaign, or whatever.

In this case of the content being held, the content was not even withheld for long - only 2 days, which is small considering all of the delays that happened to release due to my missteps in getting the album pieced together and ready for release, which collectively delayed the release by almost an year. Nobody feels worse about that than me - I even thought about it while in boot camp getting jacked up near daily, and it was even in my mind when I used my precious free time there writing letters to friends. It was supposed to be released before I left for boot camp last March. It's important to keep perspective though. In the end, it's doing the artists a huge favor with exposing them to even greater audiences. It even got people more active on social media discussing the promotion & music itself (the jump in Facebook comments, likes, and shares compared to previous releases is notable).

You do not believe that the benefits of exposure outweigh the method here. I disagree greatly due to evidence. I'm happy to leave it at that if you like, but I hope it gives you a different view you may not have considered due to distaste over the method.



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