43 replies to this topic

[Kain Xiorcal]

nsfNSF (not safe for NES Sound Format) = I had to give this type of thing a name... this way, instead of describing the entire damn thing, it'll be easier to refer to doing this kind of thing later on or whatever

So! You know when you listen to a NES song and both squares are in harmony and then one of the harmony (usually the lower one) drops to take place to some other melody? And you know that, if it wasn't for the channel limitations, the note would have continued to play all while the other melody would have stacked on top? Or, you have a riff with one or two squares, maybe doubling the bass, but then it drops out to take place to leads although the same riff is played by the bass and you can tell that without the limitations, the riffing would have continued on top of having the leads?

That's more-or-less the gist of this... it's not quite a remix, it's more of a "this might be what it would have sounded like/what the composer would have exactly done if it wasn't for the limitations".

I've been meaning to do some of these for quite a while as this 2004 post can attest. <- that thread by Ashane, he did something similar though it's more combining two songs that are basically the same song but with different instruments (one with drums but no flute, the other with flutes but no drum). I also thought of doing something like that with the different versions of CV3 and Akuaskjdfhadsjkghf


I did two songs (working on a third one):


First one is the Ninja Gaiden 2 intro.
In the original, a new melody would be added after going twice through the chord progression. One of the square had to drop a previous melody to keep up with the change. In this version, all melodies stacks. I added a NES-styled delay (aka, not through a filter, but actually taking the melody and nudging it with a lower volume) to square 1 for good measure.


Next one is Top Man from Mega Man 3.
In this version, the repeated rhythm pattern doesn't drop out when the tremolo lead enters (the octave harmony even remains). There's a few other things, but it really all pertains to that riff not dropping out to do the leads.

Coming up next: Crash Man

If you can think of a NES song that would be nice to nsfNSF'd, let me know which and what part in particular you think can be "fixed".

[EDIT]

Download the mp3s for the first 3 tracks
Download the 4th track: SuperC
Download the 5th track: Bionic Commando

Jump to Mega Man 3's Crash Man post
Jump to Super C's Thunder Landing post
Jump to Bionic Commando's Area 8 post

Edited by Kain Xiorcal, 26 July 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[Bonkers]

Give this man a cookie everyone.

[pingosimon]

Kain, my promise still stands: if I'm ever rich enough, I will pay you a salary to do cool stuff like this full-time.

Personally, I'd like to hear these without the stereo/reverb/delay effects, so they're literally like an NSF with extra channels.

[Kain Xiorcal]

Personally, I'd like to hear these without the stereo/reverb/delay effects, so they're literally like an NSF with extra channels.

You're right that the NES didn't have panning, but I've only slightly panned like how it is in my NotsoFatso player; I didn't do anything fancy like dynamic panning where a channel goes from one speaker to the next.
As for "reverb and delay", I mentioned it in my first post: no filter were used (there's no reverb or anything else. Just used a fade out but it's a necessary evil when the originals just keep looping without a decisive ending) and the delay you hear is achieved the same way as with the NES: using another channel that plays the same thing at a lower volume and slightly off beat. So yes, like an NSF with extra channels.
Just check out songs like Batman stage 1 and Journey to Silius title screen for some NES-styled delay.

[Kain Xiorcal]

Crash Man is here
and Youtube'd em All for easy listening (download link at the end of the first post)


I didn't wanted to be tldr in my first post @ all the changes for Top Man...
Here are the details for Crash Man:

- From the get go, if you listen to Square 2 in the original, it's used as a delay of Square 1 (LOL PINGO, CAPCOM MADE THIS DELAY NOT ME ) with some harmonized punches here and there. The thing is, they kept the delay's low volume when the punches play, like they forgot to put the volume back to normal, so I adjusted it back.

- The aforementioned first riff is pretty much the same thing as the bass, and the bass keeps playing that riff for a longass time, so the double-square riffing also continues for the entire duration that the bass plays it

- When the main lead starts and square 2 plays a counter-melody that goes apeshit, in the original, the volume is too low IMO. (You hear didlydee but you can't understand what notes the didlydees are)

- In the original, the main lead keeps playing the same thing, moving up by a 3rd (except the last one which is an octave apart from the first. So, root, 3rd, 5th and octave). That's basically like an open invitation to stack them up each time in an ultimate harmonization fest. Yuukichan's Papa, more like Blind Guardian's Papa.

- The final segment is untouched... it almost feels empty compared back to when there was 7 squares playing at the same time (4 harmonies, the intro riff plus it's delay and the didlydee counter-melody) plus the triangle and noise for a total of 9 tracks.

[Demonstray]

Kain is <333333333333

[travis]

I feel like Kain is someone whose mad genius we don't get to see often enough.

[jmr]

I don't intend to slight your work here, Kain (believe me, I think it's bad ass), but I find the not-safe-for-NSF title a little misleading. It wouldn't be THAT hard to execute these kind of changes while still remaining an NSF through using the expansion channels (your crash man might be an exception to that).
Proof of concept: http://www.kngi.org/...itle-redux.nsfe
EDIT: here's a version that attempts to recreate your delay effect. http://www.kngi.org/...edux-delay.nsfe

[Bonkers]

Man, I Gotta learn Famitracker.

That NSFE with the Delay sounded pretty good. Couldn't get other link to work

[cetera]

the project is SUPER CALA FRAG

there are so many songs that need this treatment, and im blanking right now, because i haven't done the right steps to keep my mind alive nsf- wise. my activity used to be playing random nsfs when darmock would drive me somewhere. its much more dangerous when i drive myself.

i would like to point out something just in case this project is to go very far. this is meant to be a friendly observation that you can take or leave.
ironically, now that you are director's-cutting these tracks, it seems that mix problems have arisen. those channels have fairly fat tones and now they are fighting each other. the tremolo lead on top man wasn't nearly as stand-outy as it should be imo. and with crash man, the drums and maybe bass have become overwhelmed by the sheer onslaught of layered squares. normally i guess this stuff would be solved by cutting frequencies here and there, but maybe in the case of chiptunes, you could do it all by just increasing amplitude greatly where necessary.

amazing-balls project and i want to suggest tunes asap

[Shervz0r]

Wow, loving these Kain! As always, well fucking done!

Not sure but I think there are simple iterative elements in Metal Man's theme that could benefit from this treatment

My only criticism: Although I never liked crashman's theme, that epic harmonization in your rendition almost sounds like an organ

[Djinnocide]

This is blasphemy and there's a special place in hell for people like you, Kain. The only way to save yourself from the fires of perdition is to take a list of my favorite NES albums and give it this special treatment.

[Kain Xiorcal]

I don't intend to slight your work here, Kain (believe me, I think it's bad ass), but I find the not-safe-for-NSF title a little misleading. It wouldn't be THAT hard to execute these kind of changes while still remaining an NSF through using the expansion channels (your crash man might be an exception to that).
Proof of concept: http://www.kngi.org/...itle-redux.nsfe
EDIT: here's a version that attempts to recreate your delay effect. http://www.kngi.org/...edux-delay.nsfe

Woah dude! Did you just do this yourself? You should do a few more! If I could do that as an NSF, that would be even more awesome and maybe even easier (and proving that it's still doable through an expansion). As for the title, sorry if it's misleading, I just wanted to come up with a name and mixing nsfw and nsf sounded hilarious at 5 in the morning.

i would like to point out something just in case this project is to go very far. this is meant to be a friendly observation that you can take or leave.
ironically, now that you are director's-cutting these tracks, it seems that mix problems have arisen. those channels have fairly fat tones and now they are fighting each other. the tremolo lead on top man wasn't nearly as stand-outy as it should be imo. and with crash man, the drums and maybe bass have become overwhelmed by the sheer onslaught of layered squares. normally i guess this stuff would be solved by cutting frequencies here and there, but maybe in the case of chiptunes, you could do it all by just increasing amplitude greatly where necessary.

amazing-balls project and i want to suggest tunes asap

Yeah, it can be hard to have a melody stand out more when there's more going on, with Crash man though, each time an harmony stacked, I lowered all the squares by the same volume (by 1 db or maybe 1.5, I can't remember) so that the overall mix wouldn't be actually that much louder (also preventing clipping/loudness).

Wow, loving these Kain! As always, well fucking done!
Not sure but I think there are simple iterative elements in Metal Man's theme that could benefit from this treatment

My only criticism: Although I never liked crashman's theme, that epic harmonization in your rendition almost sounds like an organ

Yes, I also thought about Metal Man - the square 2 repeated figure could just continue without dropping out, but maybe the fact that it drops out to punch together in harmony adds even more punch and synergy. That, or I'm thinking that I thought too much about MM tracks (Metal Man, Wily, Heat Man, etc) and would like to do some from other games. I also never really favored Crashman's theme, but when I thought about what could be changed, it seemed like a worthwhile track to do.

This is blasphemy and there's a special place in hell for people like you, Kain. The only way to save yourself from the fires of perdition is to take a list of my favorite NES albums and give it this special treatment.

Bring suggestions, just remember that there's gotta be something to change in it. Over the years, many tracks that I thought "hey, this here! that there!" but I'm drawing a blank now.

It'd be really cool if others (jmr) would do some too.

[Rize]

Awesome. I had always thought of doing this by recording each track as waves and duplicating the full parts under where they left out.

I'm finding it surprisingly difficult to locate new candidates though. There are tracks that suffer from it for a short stretch, but the Ninja Gaiden II opening was a prime target. Sounds wicked.

[VikingGuitar]

Kain. I have nothing to say about this aside from KEEP DOING IT.

Also, I can't listen to Crashman without hearing this: