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Donald Trump Is Your New President.


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#4456 mooniniteG

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 11:32 PM

I don't know why I'm always expected to take the high road, it's about damn time people get some blowback for their shitty viewpoints.

 
Why are you randomly dredging up 3+ year old posts this evening? Is there some beef with Alex and Rize going on elsewhere (e.g. Facebook) that I'm not privy to?
 

But you have a history of bad hot takes, so I'm not surprised you feel this way

 
Are you talking about me? If so, what bad hot takes are you talking about (excluding Star Wars)? I seriously don't have any clue what you're talking about.
 

Sure, but what's the over-under on a person making statements like that coming in here now and being like, "Oh wow, I can't believe how wrong I was, I was so stupid, voting for Trump was the worst decision I ever made," vs. them being like "Well, actually, my neighbor got a 20 cent raise, therefore Trump's economic policies are a boon to all, also, here's why attacking Iran was a brilliant decision, also, if you look up "concentration camp" in the dictionary..." etc.

 

No doubt, I wouldn't be surprised if they're views haven't changed much since then either. But why are we randomly quoting 3+ year old posts and giving people shit for them? Alex doesn't post here anymore and Rize has certainly made dumb posts a lot more recently to reply to even in this very thread (and he's on my ignore list because of it). There's a lot more to discuss with Trump and politics today especially than giving someone crap for supporting him 3+ years ago in a forum post.


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#4457 armor

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Posted 08 January 2020 - 11:44 PM

https://itsgoingdown.org/  Real news you can count on.


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#4458 Robby V

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 12:27 AM

https://itsgoingdown.org/ Real news you can count on.

I can’t read the phrase “it’s going down” without thinking of that song with Mike Shinoda

Which isn’t necessarily good or bad
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#4459 Sagnewshreds

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 09:56 AM

Iranians online are disagreeing and really afraid of the US military coming in.  Iran's economy continues to reach unspeakable lows, unemployment is sky high, and they just got done killing their own people last month for committing mass protests, again.  Hate for the government and discontent is sky high.  Soulcrushed and bankrupt army, so in and out like the first Iraq war would be possible.  They are a power in the region, but that's because our "humanitarian interventions" have left all their neighbors in complete shambles.  Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, etc.

 

It's a preposterous idea regardless, because the Iranian people are actually super pro-American and hate their government.  Killing millions of them is an easy way to change that, and for what? So the Saudi regime can hobble along for another few decades and continue to fuck over their people too? It won't stop Hesbollah or anything else.  It's fucking insane.  These are the death throes of a politically desperate idiot.  It will be war in an attempt to gain approval ratings in polling numbers.  Americans shouldn't fucking die for that, and Persians shouldn't either.

 

 

I don't think this is true and I'm not sure where you got that from? Or maybe I just don't know what you mean by "pro-American" and am misinterpreting what you're saying. At any rate, the assassination of Soleimani was extremely unpopular there. The Iranian people don't associate him with government repression because he has pretty much nothing to do with domestic policy and most of them think of him as someone who defended them from ISIS and stood up to US imperialism in the region. He was also on a diplomatic mission for peace talks when he was killed and the turnout for his funeral was absolutely massive. The Iranian people are more likely to see this as a reason to rally behind their government in the time of a national crisis if war breaks out, not unlike what happened in the US after 9/11.

 

And just because people are afraid of the US military invading their country doesn't mean that the US would "win" the war. Regardless of the outcome, countless lives will be lost and people's homes are going to be destroyed. Why would anybody want that in the place where they and all of their friends live? I think Robby's original point was pretty fair. Even if you're a bloodthirsty war hawk, invading Iran would be a terrible idea.

 

I think there's a way this could pan out where civil war is the only thing that could prevent world war... like if Americans want to prove that they aren't a monolithic entity so that everyone doesn't have to go down with this ship... maybe it's time to demonstrate what that 2nd ammendment was for and remove a tyrant before he does some other extrajudicial loose cannon shit like launching a nuke... 

 

Before I get into this, I just want to say that there's an excellent podcast called It Could Happen Here that goes over what a second American Civil War could look like, in great detail. It was put together by a conflict journalist who's been to Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, etc during times of civil war/unrest, and I think it's really well executed and well researched. It's...pretty dark at times though. There are a lot of valuable takeaways and I'd recommend it to anyone who's interested. With that said, here's my actual response to the idea that we need an armed civil conflict:

 

I don't really think that's how it would work out. A second American Civil War wouldn't look like the first one with two sides going against each other on the battlefield. And it wouldn't look like 20th century revolutions like in Russia or China with one group overthrowing the state and taking control of the entire region under a new government. It would probably look a lot more like the Syrian Civil War. There would be dozens of factions each taking hold with varying degrees of success in different regions. The majority of the fighting would probably be guerrilla warfare and it would probably be a war of attrition, which would starve many communities.

 

The centralized state might lose a lot of ground and the US might become balkanized, but it wouldn't simply be the "removal of a tyrant" even in the best case scenario. You're also pretty likely to see something like the rise of the Christian equivalent of ISIS. On the flip side with the retreat of the state you might also see that power vacuum filled in certain regions by more egalitarian, bottom-up leftist movements like the one happening in Jackson, Mississippi right now.

 

And while being armed would be useful (and for the record I don't buy into the common liberal talking point on guns about how armed civilian fighters wouldn't be able to hold their own against the US military...that's been shown to be demonstrably false in many conflicts around the globe and ignores the countless real-life examples of scrappy guerrilla militias, urban or otherwise, making massively funded militaries look like fools), what's far more important is being organized. Strong communities are the best defense in this (or any) kind of scenario. Knowing how to shoot a gun or use cheap drones or throw molotovs or whatever can be useful...but it'll be a lot more useful to fix community infrastructure, grow food, distribute resources, facilitate collective decision-making in the absence of the state or the usual local authorities, resolve day-to-day conflicts between people without escalating to violence, gathering/distributing information and communications, etc. Life doesn't stop happening when war breaks out, and the majority of the time spent in a civil war would not likely be spent in active armed conflict. 

 

Either way the outcome would be millions of deaths, a massive refugee crisis, possible genocides depending on which groups take power in certain regions, and a whole slew of other absolutely terrible shit. That's not something I want. Even if you want a positive or revolutionary outcome, there are no well organized movements in the US that are poised to take advantage of the kind of collapse that would take place. If your eventual goal is the kind of revolutionary change that would solve the structural contradictions that gave us Trump in the first place, the vast majority of the work is done through, again, years and years of community organizing. Meeting people's needs is more important than flashy explosions or gun fights. It's the boring stuff that changes the world. So get out there and get to work buddy  :P

 

Aside from that, if you want the American people to be able exert their will over a government that's exploiting and abusing them and innocent people abroad, I think a good example is what's happening in Chile right now. Through an unrelenting movement of direct action and bottom up organizing, the Chilean people have been able to get the government to rewrite its constitution to have input from civilians, workers, and social movements, and they aren't taking no for an answer or ceding an inch in their demands. 

 

Where I do definitely agree with you is that if you want to stop the war machine, it'll take more than witty slogans on cardboard signs. You'll need to throw enough sand in the gears to make going to war unfeasible or too domestically costly to be profitable (and this can be done in nonviolent ways). The only thing they care about is their bottom line, so any successful anti-war movement needs to hit them where it hurts: their wallets.


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#4460 TV's Frink

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 10:48 AM

Sure, but what's the over-under on a person making statements like that coming in here now and being like, "Oh wow, I can't believe how wrong I was, I was so stupid, voting for Trump was the worst decision I ever made," vs. them being like "Well, actually, my neighbor got a 20 cent raise, therefore Trump's economic policies are a boon to all, also, here's why attacking Iran was a brilliant decision, also, if you look up "concentration camp" in the dictionary..." etc.

 

Rize came back and said the same shit he was always saying before, so it's not hindsight in his case at least.


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#4461 Arm Cannon

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 01:56 PM

176 civilians dead 

https://www.cbsnews....stream-updates/


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#4462 Leonidus

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:40 PM

Sure, but what's the over-under on a person making statements like that coming in here now and being like, "Oh wow, I can't believe how wrong I was, I was so stupid, voting for Trump was the worst decision I ever made," vs. them being like "Well, actually, my neighbor got a 20 cent raise, therefore Trump's economic policies are a boon to all, also, here's why attacking Iran was a brilliant decision, also, if you look up "concentration camp" in the dictionary..." etc.

 
My brother and I used to be libertarian, much like Alex and Serena.  Maybe you'd be surprised?
 

 

It's a preposterous idea regardless, because the Iranian people are actually super pro-American and hate their government.

 
I don't think this is true and I'm not sure where you got that from?

 


It's one of the cool things about Persians man.  They are really cool with Americans, just our governments hate each other.

 

https://www.theatlan...ericans/258166/

 

https://www.npr.org/...toryId=89683583

 

https://www.foxnews....heir-government

 

It's one of those facts that pops up in a lot of foreign policy discussions about Iran.


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#4463 weener

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Posted 09 January 2020 - 08:56 PM

Sure, but what's the over-under on a person making statements like that coming in here now and being like, "Oh wow, I can't believe how wrong I was, I was so stupid, voting for Trump was the worst decision I ever made," vs. them being like "Well, actually, my neighbor got a 20 cent raise, therefore Trump's economic policies are a boon to all, also, here's why attacking Iran was a brilliant decision, also, if you look up "concentration camp" in the dictionary..." etc.


My brother and I used to be libertarian, much like Alex and Serena. Maybe you'd be surprised?
I would LOVE to be surprised. I completely belive that people can change for the better but in my experience they rarely do.
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#4464 Cursed Lemon

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 04:16 PM

Let's see if I can encapsulate Republican politics in a little nutshell.

 

John Bolton says he's willing to testify if subpoenaed.

 

Trump said he'd be fine with John Bolton testifying.

 

Executive privilege is then invoked to stop him from testifying.

 

He can't do that, but he does it anyway, because it's not a law if it's not enforced.

 

This will be tied up in court for months.

 

The debate over executive privilege will run through common discourse for as long as needed to be politically convenient.

 

Mitch McConnell says, "we'll just have no witnesses then".

 

Bolton grins.


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#4465 Smeg

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Posted 10 January 2020 - 04:35 PM

it's not a law if it's not enforced.


This is the key takeaway from the last three years.
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#4466 Bimmy

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:41 AM

https://itsgoingdown.org/ Real news you can count on.

I can’t read the phrase “it’s going down” without thinking of that song with Mike Shinoda

Which isn’t necessarily good or bad

Baaahaha!! Same
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#4467 Robby V

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 10:18 AM

https://itsgoingdown.org/ Real news you can count on.

I can’t read the phrase “it’s going down” without thinking of that song with Mike Shinoda

Which isn’t necessarily good or bad
Update - all day at work the other day I kept singing My Sharona to myself but swapping out all applicable lyrics to Mike Shinoda.
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#4468 Leonidus

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 12:12 PM

 

 

Sure, but what's the over-under on a person making statements like that coming in here now and being like, "Oh wow, I can't believe how wrong I was, I was so stupid, voting for Trump was the worst decision I ever made," vs. them being like "Well, actually, my neighbor got a 20 cent raise, therefore Trump's economic policies are a boon to all, also, here's why attacking Iran was a brilliant decision, also, if you look up "concentration camp" in the dictionary..." etc.


My brother and I used to be libertarian, much like Alex and Serena. Maybe you'd be surprised?
I would LOVE to be surprised. I completely belive that people can change for the better but in my experience they rarely do.

 

 

This kind of assumption that House is a crazy person beyond reason now because he voted for trump really bothers me, and I wanted to say some more shit about it, but I'm worried everyone's going to be shitty about it anyway.  I don't know.

 

Maybe give your friends more respect and benefit of the doubt on this.  House is someone we all knew, and I knew him as someone who is not a crazy asshole.  He was a still a super good dude, last I saw him.  This kind of demonization in absentia strikes me as ridiculous to do to people who are your friends, people who you know, just because they have different political opinions.

 

This is the same reason I'm respectful to you guys, even when there's some blatantly super crazy shit some of you say.  I've met plenty of you guys, you're not insane, you're just people, like everyone else.   House probably voted for trump because he thought it was best for our country.  I think that was wrong, but I'm not going to fucking ridicule the guy over multiple pages for it and assume he's some lost cause you couldn't reason with.  A lot of people voted for trump, and it's more important to be fair and reasonable to those who aren't the crazies, rather than to just try to socially obliterate all of them.

 

Blah blah blah Andrew Yang 2020


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#4469 urvile

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 01:16 PM

House and Ashane were the first two people I met off this board, way back when Minibosses played Ground Kontrol. Seen him a few times over the years, think the last time was the 10th Anniversary show. He was always cool to me as far as that goes

As far as bringing up old shit and whatnot, again I’m not aware of his current opinions but he’s aligned himself with shitty people so cry me a fucking river. He can pop on here and defend himself if he gives a shit what I think these days

I make no apologies for being angry for those supporting this asshole. You can hate me or whatever, your loss.

I have probably more to lose than any of you if people like Trump are in power or God forbid the social order breaks down. Are you gonna come over here and wipe my ass and be my therapist?

Anyways I gotta head out
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#4470 Valence

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Posted 12 January 2020 - 02:17 PM

jUsT bEcAuSe ThEy HaVe DiFfErEnT pOLiTiCaL oPiNiOnS.

 

Oh yeah, because that shit is totally in a vacuum and doesn't effect others in any way shape or form, no siree! It's not racism, sexism etc, they're just different political opinions! Why can't your friends stay friends when they vote in the worst way possible, causing massive harm to everyone that isn't a rich, straight, god fearing white man? Just stay friends with the racist, misogynistic pieces of shit, because, "different political opinions!" No big deal!  

 

:rolleyes:


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