26 replies to this topic

[JRC]

One problem: "There is so much that doesn't happen here in the summer," says boss Matt Lehrman. But when life gives you lemons, you're supposed to make lemonade. Or, in this case, Tazo Passion Shaken Iced Tea & Lemonade.

i used to think these guys were cool, but then again, I once owned an 45 by The Archies

Is there a reason they aren't doing these events at LUX, Willow House, Mama Java, and any of the 300 other local places they could be?


I should have stayed in bed today.
JRC--OWL

[Mary]

I was trying to think of a reason, and I actually did. They need art consumers who know about their site. And they need new ones. Customers of the cool local places are more likely to already be those people. So they get more first-time-clicker bang per capita at Starf***s.

[unluckycharm]

as often happens, the big dogs get the action ..

i remember borders used to host local bands every weekend ...

don't know what i'm saying here; is there law against local artists playing at chain places?

[Danosaur]

One problem: "There is so much that doesn't happen here in the summer," says boss Matt Lehrman. But when life gives you lemons, you're supposed to make lemonade. Or, in this case, Tazo Passion Shaken Iced Tea & Lemonade.

i used to think these guys were cool, but then again, I once owned an 45 by The Archies

Is there a reason they aren't doing these events at LUX, Willow House, Mama Java, and any of the 300 other local places they could be?


I should have stayed in bed today.
JRC--OWL

well one give away is that this came from the worst newspaper in az...the Re-Pube-Lick...

[church]

y'all need to get over your starbucks thing

[larah]

don't eat at chili's or applebee's or shop at target.

i agree with mary. she makes a fine point.

[Jacki O.]

don't eat at chili's or applebee's or shop at target.

i agree with mary. she makes a fine point.

chili's and applebee's suck for food anyways, i have a hard time avoiding shopping at Target, i love it....i can't help it. but they "allow" their pharmacists to not give out the morning after pill if they are "morally" opposed to it....which is soooooo lame....even WalMart has stopped doing that - their pharmacists must give out whatever a customer orders (with a prescription) whether or not they feel it's right or wrong.....

target has nice swimsuits this season though....

[eraser]

Here's what I sent Matt Lehrman of Alliance for Audience / ShowUp.com yesterday:

Mr. Lehrman,

My name is Jose Gonzalez and I'm one of the co-producers of the Phoenix Improv Festival (among the many things I'm a part of), which just recently was happy to jump on board ShowUp.com as a member to help promote our festival last May. We also joined in hopes of continuing to work with ShowUp.com to showcase upcoming events that we produce and to also help spread the word about ShowUp.com. To have more communication and awareness about and among the different organizations that produce cultural and performing arts events around town is something that we're certainly in favor of.

All that said, I have to say that my opinions below are solely my own and should not necessarily reflect the views of the Phoenix Improv Festival or any other organization or performing group that I am a part of.

I'm writing to express my extreme disappointment in ShowUp.com's partnership with Starbucks. There are so many different facets to my disappointment with such a partnership that it's very difficult to even gather my thoughts, but I'll try to do so by starting at the beginning.

I think that ShowUp.com has done an amazing job and done great things for entertainment and cultural events going on in the Greater Phoenix area. Through what has been an admirable and staggering amount of hard work and passion, ShowUp.com has become a such a great resource for organizations to reach an enthusiastic audience. It has also been a great resource for audience members daring enough to leave the comfortable confines of their living rooms (which, believe me, after a long day of work and a hellish drive home gets even more comfortable and, thus, tempting).

Since its earliest days (and even before, with its roots in Alliance for Audience), ShowUp.com has seemingly sought to spotlight the best and most varied palette of what the Valley of the Sun has to offer culturally.

That's what makes the ShowUp.com/Starbucks partnership and your comments in today's resultant AZCentral.com article (http://www.azcentral...showup0618.html) so mind-boggling.

It seems super-trite to go into detail about Starbucks' severe lack of culture / overwhelming surplus of focus-group-tested and manufactured "corporate cool" and their inclination toward squashing local and independent businesses. So, I'll just say that there are some fantastic locally-owned & operated coffeehouses and other businesses that already support performers and artists by offering them both a place to perform or showcase their art and by being a gathering place for them.

You could have found them through Delocator (an online resource to find non-corporate coffeehouses, http://www.delocator.net/), Arizona Chain Reaction (soon to be known as Local-First Arizona, http://www.azcr.org), or even Artlink (the entity that organizes First Friday, where ShowUp.com often has a table set up in front of Modified, http://www.artlinkphoenix.com). ShowUp.com's own comprehensive list of venues, organizations, and events also would have been a great place to start.

I'm willing to bet that most of those local & independent coffeehouses and venues would have been thrilled to participate in some sort of summer-long series of performance showcases if they had been approached.

It seems likely, though, that ShowUp.com was approached by Starbucks being that the three performances that are being promoted in the local partnership are a part of Starbucks' current summertime "Let's Meet at Starbucks" campaign (http://www.letsmeetatstarbucks.com - as per the ShowUp.com mailing). Whatever ShowUp.com might be getting in exchange for helping out locally with that promotion, though, scarecely seems worth the opportunity to produce & promote around only three performances.

I mention that it's only three performances because of a specific quote attributed to you in today's AZCentral.com article - "There is so much that doesn't happen here in the summer."

While I can't be sure of the context in which that statement was uttered in your interview, in the article's context it implies that there is a drop-off in arts and cultural events in the valley during the summer.

First off, I'm not sure that adding merely three performances at random Starbucks will make up for all that's not happening here in the summer.

Secondly, your statement is contradicted by ShowUp.com's own calendar of events.

Lastly, your statement can be taken as somewhat of a slight (however unintended as such) to the work that different organizations, venues, and performers undertake even during the summer.

Since it's pointless to be merely disappointed (especially since the ShowUp.com/Starbucks promotion will continue, I'm assuming), I guess my greater aim is to start up a dialogue and hear your thoughts on the matter and to hope for greater communication and consideration in the future.

ShowUp.com is very quickly getting to the point of being very influential (and I believe already has considerable influence) in helping cultivate and promote the cultural fabric of the Valley of the Sun, especially in the area of reaching audience members. That status is well-deserved considering the countless hours of toil that I imagine it took to get to this point and it is also well-deserved for the ways in which ShowUp.com seeks to connect with organizations through receiving feedback and cooperation.

There are occasions when a single event has tickets available through both events juggernaut Ticketmaster and ShowUp.com. If any local patron chose to buy their tickets through Ticketmaster over first checking out ShowUp.com, I wouldn't hesitate to call it a mistake. In addition to losing out on the possibility of getting a great deal on tickets, that patron will have passed up the opportunity to support a local organization whose work, ultimately and importantly, has supported a great amount of arts and cultural organizations, large and small, in Phoenix.

I think that in a very similar manner, ShowUp.com has erred by partnering with Starbucks, even if only in the short term.

Thank you for your time and I hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely,
Jose Gonzalez

Since sending that email to Matt (and CC'ing to various folks), I've heard back from him (and some of the other folks) and a dialogue is opening up. He's been really open with his thoughts and I think some really good things can happen.

Having been involved with the Phoenix Improv Festival, I'm definitely aware of the importance of keeping things financially afloat and how that sometimes means at least considering sponsorships from businesses and corporations that you might personally find repugnant. As with all things, one tries to look at the pros and cons and tries to make the best decision possible.

I was trying to think of a reason, and I actually did. They need art consumers who know about their site. And they need new ones. Customers of the cool local places are more likely to already be those people. So they get more first-time-clicker bang per capita at Starf***s.

Yeah, that's one thing I thought of as well.

To paraphrase Dre from OutKast in "Humble Mumble" - "Speeches only reach those who know about it."

So, the dilemma is how to reach the people who don't already know about what's going on in town. In the case of this particular issue, the decision was made to reach out to folks who go to Starbucks in hopes that they'll support art, entertainment, and cultural events in Phoenix, spurred by this particular promotion.

Personally (and I entirely admit that I could be wrong), I tend to see Starbucks patrons as two types of folks:

A - folks who just want their coffee fix. They want something quick, easy, and familiar. They see a Starbucks sign and, like a McDonald's sign, it's a beacon for the aforementioned things that they want.

B - folks who hang out at Starbucks (which apparently is part of the goal of this current promotion -- letsmeetatstarbucksDOTcom -- on Starbucks' side of things). For whatever reason, they dig the atmosphere there.

For A, I think the impact is probably kind of minimal either way - they're totally dash in and dash out.

For B, I tend to think that they're not adventurous folks who are gonna seek out cool local stuff. (Huge, possibly horrible generalization here:) If that were the case, I don't know that they'd be at Starbucks. I don't know - I think the hope is that maybe they'll catch some of the performances being put on by local performers and artists at these events and that it'll spark some interest. I definitely think there's potential for that, particularly for maybe some younger folks who are allowed to hang out at Starbucks 'cause it's safe or whatever. I think, though, that for every one person who actually gets their interest piqued that there'll be at least 9 other folks who either won't care, will be unmoved, or feel justified that checking out local stuff just isn't their thing.

So, for smaller-scale stuff (basically any place or performance that doesn't require staff uniforms and nametags), I don't know that this will be that much of a boon.

The thing I realized between yesterday and today, though, is that part of this promotion is giving away free tickets to the bigger-scale stuff (Phoenix Zoo, Arizona Science Center, Actors Theatre, etc.). They'll definitely benefit in some way, I'm sure. They're also paid members of Alliance for Audience / ShowUp.com and ShowUp.com has a responsibility to them as well as to the little guys. So, that's also part of the balance that ShowUp has to consider.

The one other thing I considered is that on our side of things there are things that can be improved. Often, we're doing things on the DIY / indie tip and organization & communication can be lacking - or at least the level of organization & communication that it takes to land these kind of promotional opportunities. Hopefully, in communicating about these issues, we can learn what we need to do to better facilitate sweet teamups and the like. We can't just expect to be plucked from all of the stuff that's going on and presented these opportunities. That's not to say that we don't work hard, but we can always learn to work more efficiently.

As unluckycharm mentioned, too, the big dog corporations have the kind of money to throw around to different organizations, events, and the like. So, they often get access and opportunities that some folks don't get. (And, in the case of being organized, they can actually hire folks that keep all of their affairs and community involvement straight and the like.)

All of that is kind of a fact of life, but then it just becomes a matter of where the limits of that are.

In politics, it's often candidates that are capable of pulling in the most money that get to stick around for the primaries and beyond, rather than the candidate with ideas that are actually going to make this country a better place to live and be a part of.

Where politics and public interest intersect, it's often the proponents of an issue that have the most money with which to lobby politicians that end up winning out, often at the expense of most citizens (and common sense).

The auto shop that I used to go to, on 15th Avenue & McDowell, just got bought out by developers who offered the guy who runs it a pretty hefty sum of money. He's an acquaintance of my uncle and it's hard to blame him considering that he's worked all his life and has a family of his own to support. His buyout was precipitated by the developers being able to convince the city council that the apartments right next door were fraught with drug sales and crime (and maybe they might be) to the point that that should supercede their historical status - enough so, that they convinced them that it would be a good idea to sell that land to the developers, who now plan to put up condos there.

Big dog money from developers went into influencing the mayor and the council to destroy Patriots Park Square to put up what will essentially be a city/tax-payer-subsidized mall. (Personally, my only hope is that they'll cram that motherfucker with as many Starbucks as possible and maybe win some kind of Guinness World Record for their effort.)

So, yeah, money will always be a factor and, in all likelihood, is often the most important factor of all in these dealings. I think the responsibility then becomes to affect change in the ways we can, however small (and probably easily dismissed as pointless; I see you, church). That, to me, means taking the disappointment or anger or whatever and channelling into something positive.

[Jacki O.]

wow Eraser - that was well put...and that's awesome that you wrote that guy from ShowUp.com an email/letter. I think it's great that at least a dialogue on the subject is getting started..........

Sometimes when i think about Phoenix i get really depressed because i see soo many awesome people working really hard to cultivate an awesome arts culture in Phoenix but they are up against some really powerful people who just want to make their money and run. They don't care about history or the environment or the people that live in our communities. it really saddens and scares me. All the politicians talk about how they want to "create" a downtown atmosphere (completely ignoring the awesome one that already exists) and then go about it in ways that do exactly the opposite from their "goals".

I know there are alot of people working hard to stop cultural annihiltion from happening to Phoenix but sometimes it feels like an uphill battle.....
I work in North Scottsdale and it is sooo depressing. they keep building and building into the desert. new shopping centers with borders, best buy, target, bed bath and beyond, new chilis.....it's the same old shit. I keep fearing that the downtown phoenix area will turn into another Mill Ave. If it can happen in tempe, it can happen anywhere.

but then i read your stuff and feel a little better. A little more like I can keep going.....

[dharma_bum]

I know there are alot of people working hard to stop cultural annihiltion from happening to Phoenix but sometimes it feels like an uphill battle.....
I work in North Scottsdale and it is sooo depressing. they keep building and building into the desert. new shopping centers with borders, best buy, target, bed bath and beyond, new chilis.....it's the same old shit. I keep fearing that the downtown phoenix area will turn into another Mill Ave. If it can happen in tempe, it can happen anywhere.

i see it already happening. dtown and the immediate surrounding area are in the early stages of gentrification. i remember 4 years ago, by mckinley and 3rd ave, they were just starting to tear down the old, crack houses. now, you can buy one for the high 200's... lofts are springing up everywhere and those are the mid 200's... so, what artist can afford that shit? none. that is pretty much it. suburbanites are moving in downtown and it will become just like tempe (mill ave). i don't see it ending up any other way. it is like any other artist district in the country. Soho, in nyc for example, same thing. all the artists that made that area what it was are getting kicked to curb while the upper middleclass and the rich move in. i can guarantee that the investors are just foaming at the mouth regarding grand ave. hopefully, the businesses that were already here before the investors took over, won't suffer but prosper from more people moving in. i just see it is a very non-level playing field right now when it comes to housing in the dtown area.

[unluckycharm]

I know there are alot of people working hard to stop cultural annihiltion from happening to Phoenix but sometimes it feels like an uphill battle.....
I work in North Scottsdale and it is sooo depressing. they keep building and building into the desert. new shopping centers with borders, best buy, target, bed bath and beyond, new chilis.....it's the same old shit. I keep fearing that the downtown phoenix area will turn into another Mill Ave. If it can happen in tempe, it can happen anywhere.

i see it already happening. dtown and the immediate surrounding area are in the early stages of gentrification. i remember 4 years ago, by mckinley and 3rd ave, they were just starting to tear down the old, crack houses. now, you can buy one for the high 200's... lofts are springing up everywhere and those are the mid 200's... so, what artist can afford that shit? none. that is pretty much it. suburbanites are moving in downtown and it will become just like tempe (mill ave). i don't see it ending up any other way. it is like any other artist district in the country. Soho, in nyc for example, same thing. all the artists that made that area what it was are getting kicked to curb while the upper middleclass and the rich move in. i can guarantee that the investors are just foaming at the mouth regarding grand ave. hopefully, the businesses that were already here before the investors took over, won't suffer but prosper from more people moving in. i just see it is a very non-level playing field right now when it comes to housing in the dtown area.

see the dilemma in the scenario: artists want places to exist, create, and perform. but they also want attention and people to buy their art/performance. here comes joe hipster, who has some $$in his pocket from his new cushy job. joe hipster wants to live near all the action, but it takes evil developer man to attract him there with a cool loft. so the neighborhood morphs until prices get too out of control for artists to exist there. but joe hipster will probably be able to buy a cup of starbucks coffee at the end of his block. the artists meanwhile move to ... 'insert poverty ridden neighborhood here'...

[Jacki O.]

so let's all give up and move somewhere else. i say we invade Sun City!

[unluckycharm]

so let's all give up and move somewhere else. i say we invade Sun City!

i just saw morrissey there. it's the new hip 'burb.

btw .. i didn't mean to say 'it's hopeless', you gotta fight the good fight and find some balance somewhere. I think unfortunately phoenix suffers from leadership who are stuck in an old way of thinking about cities --- and on top of that, they cater to business, not citizens.

anyway .. back to starbucks and showup ..

[Jacki O.]

see the dilemma in the scenario: artists want places to exist, create, and perform. but they also want attention and people to buy their art/performance. here comes joe hipster, who has some $$in his pocket from his new cushy job. joe hipster wants to live near all the action, but it takes evil developer man to attract him there with a cool loft. so the neighborhood morphs until prices get too out of control for artists to exist there. but joe hipster will probably be able to buy a cup of starbucks coffee at the end of his block. the artists meanwhile move to ... 'insert poverty ridden neighborhood here'...

what can be done? there has to be some way to co-exist. other cities have figured it out....chicago, portland? (never been so i dont know), Austin???? Boston??!?!? There has to be somewhere.........


i can't wait to be an old lady with blue hair living the crazy life in sun city.

[unluckycharm]

see the dilemma in the scenario: artists want places to exist, create, and perform. but they also want attention and people to buy their art/performance. here comes joe hipster, who has some $$in his pocket from his new cushy job. joe hipster wants to live near all the action, but it takes evil developer man to attract him there with a cool loft. so the neighborhood morphs until prices get too out of control for artists to exist there. but joe hipster will probably be able to buy a cup of starbucks coffee at the end of his block. the artists meanwhile move to ... 'insert poverty ridden neighborhood here'...

what can be done? there has to be some way to co-exist. other cities have figured it out....chicago, portland? (never been so i dont know), Austin???? Boston??!?!? There has to be somewhere.........


i can't wait to be an old lady with blue hair living the crazy life in sun city.

i dunno jackie, i'm all about problems ... not solutions!! haha.

what this really is about is the uneasy relationship between art and commerce. i think jose' post pointed that out. we all do what we can to make this the community we want to live in, so i think we need to continue to push for that.

by the way, those other cities you mentioned didn't appear out of nowhere. they developed because of the people who live there ... *and* it's not as if they don't go through the same sort of issues we are discussing here. when i first visited portland i remember my friends pointing out a starbucks that had been vandalized because of people that didn't want it there (i'm not suggesting people do that, btw). just saying there are ongoing issues with neighborhood development everywhere.