4/20 SHOW: Peachcake w/ Femme Fatality (Collective Records), Bark Bark Bark (Castle of Sound), The Morning Kennedy Was Shot (ex Not Quite Bernadette), Ho-Ag (Mister Records) & Osama Bin Sars (featuring Grace from Landmine Marathon) @ Modified Arts

Koufax (Doghouse Records) w/ Cordero (Bloodshot Records), Adam Panic & Beyond Analog (Computer Club Records) @ The Rhythm Room

Dog Fashion Disco (Rotten Records) w/ Tub Ring (as seen on MTV2's "Dew Circuit Breakout!" competition), Look What I Did (Combat/Koch Records), The Attitude (ex Victims in Ecstasy) & Vistalance @ The Phix

Headlights (Polyvinyl Records) w/ Hiller (ex Mr Kline + the Wizards of Time) & Good Morning Providence @ OnePlace

Peachcake.

Koufax.

Dog Fashion Disco.

Femme Fatality.

Cordero.

I love reading posts from touring and/or local bands complaining about concert promoters. It only further validates everything that I have personally sacrificed by putting on these shows.

Tub Ring.

sacrifice? that sounds pretty dramatic.

what do you mean?

Time + Money = Concert Promotion

It's certainly not dramatic when a good portion of every single day is involved with putting on these shows. And, the financial burden of paying for them when the attendance isn't met.

im not complaining about promoters, just saying some should try and be a little more courteous. if i take 20 minutes to write out an email politely asking to be on a show, they could at least hit reply and type "sorry, but not this one" back to me. its not like i was emailing trying to get on coachella or something... i have been in bands now for 8 years and never once have i asked to be paid for a local show, usually if we do get paid at a local show we just end up giving it to the band or bands on tour. this thread wasnt meant to attack anyone just a plea for better communication, but you can take it how you like

Honestly, there are more immediate issues I have to deal with than being able to answer every single email I receive. It's not just the occaisional band asking for a show. It's booking agents, managers, record labels, venues, promoters, touring bands, local bands, street teams & more of the same referred to me from any combination of the above. I have a running list of emails just waiting to be responded to. And, I would love nothing more than to do so.

.....and laying it all on the line and "sacrificing" doesn't sound like a good business plan. If you look at it like "sacrificing" you are setting yourself up for disappointment and making yourself bitter. No wonder you don't respond to happy-go-lucky bands, you're too shell shocked from your own outlook on your business expenses (that YOU took the risk on) to give the bands the time of day.

Bitterness comes from listening to the very same people you help complain about you. I've had bands/venues/attendees complain for a myriad of reasons at shows. And, I usually stop working with those people and/or arranging those types of shows. As a concert promoter, you're exposing yourself to risk with every confirmed date. It's just common for a lot of the people involved to use the concert promoter as their scapegoat. This is the main point which I am concerned with. And, I don't view myself as a martyr.

Hiller.

Bark Bark Bark.

Adam Panic.

Look What I Did.

ok im a liar because i just cant stop reposting....
i dont think i have ever done a show with you in the past so i dont know how well of a job you do as a promoter. if you think you do your job well then by all means keep up the good work. if you dont think it is important to write every single email back that you get then dont. thats your business. im just saying in a perfect world it would be nice to know if someone is even getting these emails i write trying to get bands on shows. i understand people are busy, but that still doesnt change the fact that i feel like an ass writing the same person who never replies to me over and over everytime a show comes and not knowing if theyre getting the emails or not... it wasnt anything meant to be taken personally. how many promoters are there in phoenix? how many amazing promoters are there in phoenix? a shit load

There are only so many hours in a day. And, answering emails and/or messages comprises of only a small portion of the work I have to do. Really, I don't always have the luxury to respond as a promoter. The process is very similar to that of dealing with a hydra. However many I take care... there are even more left to take its place.

And, I haven't taken the posts personally. I was just responding to certain generalities I noticed in the thread.

okay, that clarifies.

I wasn't trying to disrespect what you do. I KNOW that it's tough work.

I didn't like you using the word "sacrifice", that word just struck me as extreme, and funny. "financial burden" is understandable when talking about time + money = promotion. :D

I think the point that lit up has is that when people flat out don't answer an email, it's irritating. At my job, I answer anywhere from 100-200 emails a day. All people with questions that only I know the answer too, apparently. If I have time to do this at work, why can't people who do music promotion/booking just return emails so that they know that they are being aknowledged, at the very least.

I would take one word answers from a promoter. If I tried to book and the person gave me a reply like "no", or "I don't have anything for your band right now" that's all it would take. Those lines take about 3 seconds or so for anyone above neanderthal typing skillz. I don't see how people can be so self important to not answer emails. It's EASY.

That being said, No one is trying to disrespect what you do, sceneisdead. In fact all of us enjoy the shows you put on. Who even says that we're talking about you? I'm not. you're one of the gang in my book!

does this thing have spell check? :lol:


EDIT: DAMN YOU MERC! SIGN OUT WHEN YOU USE MY COMPUTER
-Mothrock, posting as merc who forgot to sign out my computer.

MERC SAYS: HA I KNEW THAT WOULD HAPPEN ROFLELROEL

A lot of people seem to forget the promotional side of it. I mean, a good portion of my time as a concert promoter is just spent driving around town to the different venues, records stores & flyering nightly at multiple shows across town. Then I have all of the online promotion to contend with on a daily basis: going to the various websites, sending out event notifications, updating my current shows, researching upcoming dates, answering questions from people who want to attend the confirmed shows, etc. Which doesn't even include all of the Q&A with bands/booking agents/managers/labels/press agents still going on around the multiple shows I have to deal with each month. There's also the busy work of running errands for the shows: hospitality, print work, generating offer sheets, mailings, etc...

Concert promotion is about taking care of a lot of important little things. And, I have to repeat that promotional cycle for every new show I decide to take on. Are there still hours left in the day? Well, the remainder is spent with my wife, finishing my degree & trying to focus on my writing. Really, that's where I view concert promotion as a bit of a sacrifice. Every passing hour is one not spent on those aspects of my life. Should I feel bad about not being able to answer every email and/or message I receive? I still try to answer them, though.

I don't think any finger pointing has been going on. Mostly, I hope this gives touring bands a perspective on the time constraints for an independent and/or in-house promoter. You happen to put a couple messages on the back burner... suddenly, a week has already passed. That same email then gets burried even more by the grip of new messages that come through every following day. We aren't trying to ignore bands. Sometimes, we just don't have time for every band.

if youre worried about wasting your time answering emails then maybe you should stop wasting your time replying to a thread on a message board that was never directed at you or anyone else in the first place. let this damn thing die, please.... i am in complete agreement with you, theres nothing more to say about it. stop beating the dead horse. if you dont wanna reply to your emails then dont, no one cares

I like to visit The Shizz on my down time - and, I even like to comment on the occasional thread. You're absolutely right, though. I hope everyone has a nice weekend.

Good Morning Providence.

The Morning Kennedy Was Shot.

Nat Damm is awesome at flyer design.

The Fall (Narnack Records) w/ The Talk (MoRisen Records) & The Okmoniks @ The Brickhouse Theater

Of all the late-'70s punk and post-punk bands, none were longer-lived or were more prolific than the Fall. Throughout their career, the band underwent a myriad of lineup changes, but at the center of it all was vocalist Mark E. Smith. With his snarling, nearly incomprehensible vocals and consuming bitter cynicism, Smith became a cult legend in indie and alternative rock. Over the course of their career, the Fall went through a number of shifts in musical style, yet the foundation of their sound was a near-cacophonic, a-melodic jagged jumble of guitars, sing-speak vocals, and keyboards. During the late '70s and early '80s, the band was at their most abrasive and atonal. In 1984, Smith's American wife Brix joined the band as a guitarist, bringing a stronger sense of pop melody to the group. By the mid-'80s, the band's British following was large enough to result in two U.K. Top 40 hits, but in essence, the group has always been a cult band; their music was always too abrasive and dense for the mainstream. Only hardcore fans can differentiate between the Fall's many albums, yet the Fall, like many cult bands, inspired a new generation of underground bands, ranging from waves of sound-alike indie rockers in the U.K. to acts in America and New Zealand, which is only one indication of the size and dedication of their small, devoted fan base.

Prior to forming the Fall in 1977, Mark E. Smith worked on the docks in Manchester, where he had auditioned and failed with a number of local heavy metal groups. Smith wasn't inspired by metal in the first place; his tastes ran more toward the experimental rock & roll of the Velvet Underground, as well as the avant-garde art rock of Can. Eventually, he found several similarly inclined musicians -- guitarist Martin Bramah, bassist Tony Friel, keyboardist Una Baines, and drummer Karl Burns -- and formed the Fall, taking the group's name from the Albert Camus novel. The band cut an EP, Bingo Master's Break-Out!, which was funded by the Buzzcocks' label New Hormones, but it sat unreleased for nearly a year, simply because the band couldn't find anyone who wanted to sign the band. The Fall were outsiders, not fitting in with either the slick new wave and the amateurish, simple chord-bashing of punk rock. Consequently, they had a difficult time landing a record contract . After a while, the group had gained some fans, including Danny Baker, the head of the Adrenaline fanzine, who persuaded Miles Copeland to release the EP on his Step Forward independent label.

During 1978, Smith replaced bassist Friel with Marc Riley (bass, guitar, keyboards) and keyboardist Baines with Yvonne Pawlett because they wanted to make the Fall more accessible. The new lineup recorded the band's first full-length album, Live at the Witch Trials, which was released in 1979. The Fall continued to tour, playing bars and cabaret clubs and, in the process, began to slowly build a fan base. Radio 1 DJ John Peel had become a fervent fan of the band, letting them record a number of sessions for his show, which provided the group with a great deal of exposure.

Before recording the Fall's second album, Smith changed the band's lineup, firing Pawlett, Bramah, and Burns, while hiring guitarist Craig Scanlon, bassist Steve Hanley, and drummer Mike Leigh; Riley moved to lead guitar from bass during this lineup shift. Scanlon and Hanley would become integral members of the Fall, staying with the band for great part of their career. The new lineup recorded and released Dragnet late in 1979. The following year, the Fall parted with Step Forward and signed with Rough Trade, where they released the live album Totale's Turns (It's Now or Never), the studio Grotesque (After the Gramme), and several acclaimed singles, including "Totally Wired" and "How I Wrote Elastic Man," in the course of 1980. Paul Hanley joined the group as a second drummer before the Grotesque album. Though several Fall recordings appeared in 1981, they were all archival releases with the exception of the Slates EP. After the release of Slates, drummer Karl Burns re-joined the group. In early 1982, the band released the full-length Hex Enduction Hour, which received some of the group's strongest reviews to date. Since the group was having trouble with Rough Trade, the album was released on Kamera Records, as was its follow-up Room to Live, which also appeared in 1982. Following its release, Riley left the band.

The major turning point in the Fall's career arrived in 1983, when Mark E. Smith met Brix Smith (born Laura Elise Smith) in Chicago while the Fall were on tour. The pair married within a few months and Brix, who originally played bass, joined the group as their second guitarist, replacing Riley; her first record with the group was 1983's Perverted by Language. Brix brought a more melodic pop sense to the band, as demonstrated by 1984's The Wonderful and Frightening World of the Fall, their first album for Beggars Banquet. Following the Call for Escape Route EP, the Fall struck up an alliance with ballet choreographer Michael Clark, who eventually collaborated on a ballet called I Am Kurious Oranj with Mark E. Smith. The Fall wrote the music and libretto for the ballet and performed the work several times during late 1984 and early 1985; an album of the music eventually appeared in 1988. By 1985, the Smiths were collaborating with each other, resulting in more structured, melodic songs like the singles "No Bulbs" and "Cruiser's Creek." Midway through 1985, Steve Hanley had to take a leave of absence and classically trained Simon Rogers joined as the temporary bassist. Once Hanley returned, Rogers moved over to keyboards. The new lineup with Rogers recorded This Nation's Saving Grace, which was released in the fall of 1985 to terrific reviews. Rogers stayed for one more album, 1986's Bend Sinister, yet he remained involved with the Fall for several years. Bend Sinister was recorded with Burns' replacement Simon Wolstencroft and, following its release, Rogers was replaced by keyboardist Marcia Schofield, who had previously played in Khmer Rouge.

In 1986, the Fall unexpectedly began to have charting singles, as their cover of the Other Half's "Mr. Pharmacist" became a minor hit in the fall. Over the next few years, the group appeared in the lower reaches of the charts consistently, breaking into the Top 40 with 1987's "Hit the North" and 1988's cover of the Kinks' "Victoria," which signalled how much more accessible the band had become with the addition of Brix's arrangements. After the 1988 release of the Simon Rogers-produced The Frenz Experiment, Brix divorced Smith and she left the Fall in 1989; original guitarist Martin Bramah replaced her. The musical result of the separation was a shift back to the darker, more chaotic sound of their early albums, as shown on the first post-Brix album, 1990's Extricate. Though Extricate was well-received, Smith decided to alter the lineup that recorded the album. He fired both Schofield and Bramah while the Fall was touring Australia. Featuring new keyboardist Dave Bush, Shift-Work was released in 1991, followed by Code: Selfish the next year.

In 1993, the Fall signed with Matador Records, which provided them with their first American record label in several years. Their first release for the label, The Infotainment Scam, was recorded with the returning Karl Burns, who provided drums. Neither The Infotainment Scam nor its 1994 follow-up Middle Class Revolt sold many records in the U.S., despite good reviews, and the Fall was again left without an American label as of 1995. Not that it mattered; they retained their devoted following in Britain, where both albums performed respectively. Brix re-joined the Fall during the supporting tour for Middle Class Revolt and appeared on 1995's Cerebral Caustic. At the beginning of 1996 keyboardist Julia Nagle had joined the band for the recording of The Light User Syndrome, an album that featured liner notes from longtime supporter and BBC DJ John Peel. The band recorded their 20th BBC session for the DJ in June followed by the departure of Brix in October and Karl Burns in December.

By this time a steady stream of compilations and live recordings started appearing, mostly without the band's involvement and the majority on the Receiver label. 1997 saw seven of them released along with reissues of Live At The Witch Trials and In a Hole. Karl Burns rejoined the band in May for a U.K. tour and the Levitate album, which appeared in September. New guitarist Tommy Crooks was brought on board and the band headed to the U.S. The live and outtake CDs kept coming and Smith released his first spoken word album, The Post Nearly Man, in September.

A new single, "Touch Sensitive", appeared in February of 1999. It ended up as the soundtrack to car commercial giving it extra exposure in the U.K., setting the stage for the April release of the new album, The Marshall Suite. Nagle was now more involved with songwriting while guitarist Neville Wilding, bassist Adam Halal, and drummer Tom Head rounded out the new Fall. Another batch of reissues appeared, followed by the successful "F-oldin' Money" single and more U.K. tours. In April of 2000, Smith made a guest appearance on Elastica's album The Menace and in November a new Fall album, The Unutterable appeared. The same month, Spencer Birtwistle replaced Tom Head while Ben Pritchard and Jim Watts would replace Wilding and Helal respectively in February of 2001.

Julia Nagle was next to leave the band and the more garage rock oriented Fall released the extremely limited single "Rude (All The Time)" in August of 2001 with the full-length Are You Are Missing Winner hitting the streets in November. The stripped-down band toured the world to support the ill received album and documented the tour on the even worse received, half-live, half-studio 2G+2, released in June of 2002. The disappointing "official" albums were now being balanced with some decent compilations for a change with Sanctuary's Totally Wired: The Rough Trade Anthology and Cog Sinister's Listening In: Lost Singles Tracks 1990-92 being the best. Smith's second spoken word album, Pander! Panda! Panzer! appeared in September of 2002, the same month his new wife Elena Poulou joined the Fall on keyboards.

Released in December 2002, "The Fall vs. 2003" single ushered in the next great era of the band with Poulou offering a melodic base for Smith's abrasiveness the same way Nagle and Brix had before. Jim Watts discovered he was fired when Smith held a band meeting in a bar in March of 2003 and bought everyone a drink but Watts. Bassist Simon "Dingo" Archer would take his place for a June - July American tour.
While on tour in the US is late April 2004, Mark E Smith inked a record deal with Narnack Records. For the American release of "The Real New Fall LP" Smith added 2 new tracks, re-mixed 2 others & re-mastered the entire album.

The Sanctuary label reissued two classic albums - Live at the Witch Trials and Dragnet - in January of 2004

In June of 2005, Narnack will release another brand new Fall album which will be followed by a summer of 2005 US Tour.