46 replies to this topic

[MikeyWretch]

There is still a sub culture! Just because some of want to think its not there any more does not mean its dead. there ar Zines and Tapes And 7 inches being recorded on 4 tracks in basements by crappy little punks that are younger than most of us that will never care to amount to anything while stealing copies from Copymax and kinkos for there stupid little zines and tape covers! It didnt go away like you think. Just underground like heavy METAL!

FUCK YEAH! I SAID IT! WHAT?! POW!

[hunter gather]

I don't think a computer screen can ever replace a zine, or a good book for that matter. I love the internet and a lot of blogs, but if I really want to connect with something, I want to turn some fucking pages. Just like it's nice to sit down in front of some stereo speakers every once in a while and stare at the ceiling and listen to your favorite songs without having to worry about driving or jogging or whatever. Sometimes it's about experiencing things instead of just reading or listening.

[MikeyWretch]

this conversation seems 10 years to late.

Im going to agree with Steve that yes this may have been something that could have been a conversation 10 years ago BUT!

Never have I agreed that Blogs replaced shit! Yes Blogs exist and can be cool and funny but there has been a steady flow of paper zines being made the whole time. Like I said Just because you moved with main stream media doesnt mean the old way is dead. Even with us killing trees all day everyday I think once the machines crash and the world explodes hand written communication will always WIN! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

[psykosteve]

Ok my real take on this.


So you have two issues here. The Content or the Medium.

If you like Zines for the Medium ("I want to hold it") then I really have no use for shitty copymax copied paper that looks like it was made in photo shop in 3 seconds with not real aesthetic quality by a 12 year old. How many zines have you looked at and gone "wow that is a piece of art." 35 years later kids are still making the the same way they did 35 years ago without taking any advantage of modern resources and forgetting the fact that when people first started making them it was a huge advancement in self publishing and democratizing of media and missing the spirit of the old zines. They are just nostalgia for people who missed the fucking point in the first place.

If you think it is about the Content then it just simply comes about delivering that content to the largest audience possible and in a way that will spread on its own. When Zines first started popping up it was because with the relatively low cost of paper copies people for the first time could deliver their own content and message in a limited way that was not even possible a few years before. Now if you are trying to spread a unique massage and actually have something to say that you care about then the Zine is not the medium for you. Anyone publishing Zines (that are not accompanied by strong web presence) is just not doing a decent job and spreading their message.

Either way the Zine fails hard at Content and Medium.

There is also no analogy between the Zine and the Vinyl Record. The Vinyl Record today is often part of a great packaging and great art (Look at everything Sargent House is doing), also their is a real audiophile argument to be made for the sound quality of a vinyl record to compressed mp3 so on the Medium Vinyle stands up where the Zine does not. Also for the content most people doing Vinyl releases are also capitalizing on all the new media advantages off the mp3 by either giving the tracks away online, selling them to itunes for the causal fan while selling the Vinyl to the die hards who really care. So on the content and delivery Vinyl as part of a full stratigy stands up great where the Zine does not.


This is not to belittle their importance in the 70s and 80s, they were very much the cultural ancestors of the Blog. But in 2009 they are about as useful as hiring a scribe to copy all your letters.



Maybe it is because I am one of the first to really discovered music after I was an internet user that I just have never got the Zine.

[Jacki O.]

well what if you just want to publish something on your own?

I've read some amazing zines that i've never found anywhere else ("i was a teenage mormon" for example)

i also think zines are really good for first time writers/publishers. a lot of people who make zines (just like blogs) have gone onto magazine publishing, book writing, etc.

also there are tons of unique handmade artistic zines out there. People use all sorts of printing and pressing technology outside of the photocopier to make their zines.

and that's the whole point of zines - they are not made for mass production/distribution.

at this point (10 years too late according to you) blogs are so easy to create that anyone can do them now. You dont really have to know html anymore to create a blog. Zines were like that, all you needed to make a basic zine was access to a photocopier, now all you need to make a blog is access to the internetz

[MikeyWretch]

Steve is really good at booking and promoting and doing what he does. But dang if he wont knock some shit he has never tried! Making zines and getting them is fun!
I mean they are books Steve! LITTLE BOOKS! you want to throw away books for your googler machine?

I think Im more like why cant you like both? Why so hard on the zines steve?

[Jacki O.]

in the age of the internet and technology, there is something really rewarding about making something physical and being able to give it to friends and family or have it sold in bookstores or through distros.

every year it seems, someone is always saying Zines are dead...but they still seem to be thriving. Look at Microcosm, they are one of the biggest independent zine and book distributors today. And they aren't that old.

[wesiswes]

The internet is just gonna get replaced by some advanced form of communication that we can't comprehend yet. Or it will just collapse or get wiped out!

I understand the practicality of everything being online, but how can you say that a digital copy is better than the original? Tangible items like zines and records so neat is that they aren't absorbed by the interwebz and exist in true form on the other side of my computer screen. And it can be appreciated a lot more, or at least that's what I think.

[MikeyWretch]

The internet is just gonna get replaced by some advanced form of communication that we can't comprehend yet. Or it will just collapse or get wiped out!

I understand the practicality of everything being online, but how can you say that a digital copy is better than the original? Tangible items like zines and records so neat is that they aren't absorbed by the interwebz and exist in true form on the other side of my computer screen. And it can be appreciated a lot more, or at least that's what I think.

What the hell did you just say to me little kid?

[psykosteve]

well what if you just want to publish something on your own?

http://www.lulu.com/

I've read some amazing zines that i've never found anywhere else ("i was a teenage mormon" for example)

Yes and their was some great content on there, but I still feel it is not better that I can Google that and get the content right now. You named a zine that when you google it you can find a lot on. If the content is so valuable today why would you not want it online where anyone in the world can read it and be influenced by it?

i also think zines are really good for first time writers/publishers. a lot of people who make zines (just like blogs) have gone onto magazine publishing, book writing, etc.

And what is it about a zine that a dedicated writer/publisher can not get better from a blog? How many publishing deals have been given to blogers vs zine creators in the last few years? I think to the aspiring writer the ability to publish multiple times a day and just WRITE without worrying about the publishing is going to be far more beneficial to the writer and their ART than only being able to write a few times a month and being limited by space.

also there are tons of unique handmade artistic zines out there. People use all sorts of printing and pressing technology outside of the photocopier to make their zines.

And to anyone make great crafts and art I tip my hat. There are some neat ones. To any artists taking their time to craft a neat product I am all for it. Did anyone see Handmade Nation when it was shown at modified? It was great.

But that is a very small percent of the zines I have seen. I just see no value in creating something I can make at copy max in 5 minutes and calling it art.

and that's the whole point of zines - they are not made for mass production/distribution.

No they were made for mass production and distribution. It is just 30 years ago the goal was reaching a limited number of people in ones own scene. People did not have the tools to reach beyond what their zine could, now the same people trying to influence those around them have better tools to do so. Now there is no reason that anyone with a message can not hit everyone in the world.

at this point (10 years too late according to you) blogs are so easy to create that anyone can do them now. You dont really have to know html anymore to create a blog. Zines were like that, all you needed to make a basic zine was access to a photocopier, now all you need to make a blog is access to the internetz

And that is my whole point, if you are going to take 5 minutes to make a crapy zine or 5 minutes to make a carpy blog the blog just simply has more potential and benefits to the author than the zine.

[MikeyWretch]

STEVE! they are LITTLE BOOKS!!!!!




Dont you get that?

WHY DO YOU HATE BOOKS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[negicore]

I was typing a rant on this as a former zine creator and blog writter, but I am just going to close up work and go home....

[psykosteve]

but how can you say that a digital copy is better than the original?

That is a leading question. It is not about copy vs original but vs two different mediums, paper vs digital.

The question should be "If you have great written content what is the best medium to spread that content with limited financial resources?" Now if you are not a professional published author I would argue that the benefits of digital communications greatly out weigh the benefits of limited printed materials.

[MikeyWretch]

I was typing a rant on this as a former zine creator and blog writter, but I am just going to close up work and go home....

I like you Tim!


Im going to have to say that what this is really about is: What I am into and what steve is into are not the same. YES! there are probably alot more people into online everything and feel similar to steve. But to think that what your doing is the right or better way is kinda wierd. One has to exist for the other to exsit. YAY keep on Bloggin!

[psykosteve]

STEVE! they are LITTLE BOOKS!!!!!




Dont you get that?

WHY DO YOU HATE BOOKS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I don't hate books, I read a lot of books. I just don't like bad books. 99% of the zines I have seen in recent years have been of such low quality I don't find any intrinsic quality in them (read above what I said about ones well made ones that are works of craft).