18 replies to this topic

[chadk]

historic home article

[raubhimself]

I grew up in a house that is nearly 200 years old and most of the buildings in my home town also fit that age. Honestly I didn't know there were tax breaks for these things and I'm not sure why there are.

I understand wanting to preserve historic homes but older homes are really not worth anything besides sentimental historic value. They are terribly inefficient, require tons of maintenance, usually have extremely outdated wiring, and have weird undesirable oddities. Keep in mind that upgrading can kill the value of a house because you are ruining the authenticity of it.

While I understand that people don't want tax increases and that these homes are of historical value, I kinda see this similarly to tax breaks for the rich. If you can afford to run your A/C all the time or pay thousands for oil heating, then these tax increases shouldn't affect you much.

Strictly speaking this is from my perspective, I have no idea what historical homes out there are like.

[JRC]

Ya'll got a learning to do.
There's a difference between a well maintained historic home and one that's just old.

Why do we need to encourage this?
Cuz if we don't, this whole fucking state is going to be living in 30 thousand SqFt. pressboard shanties like Anthem.

[Jacki O.]

Phoenix suffers from long-term memory loss.

The mentality here is tear it down and build new. Thus we've lost out on a lot of our history and some of the uniqueness/identity that older buildings offer a city.

If you've ever walked/biked/driven around some of the historic neighborhoods (F.Q. Story, Roosevelt, Willo, Cornado, Encanto, etc.) in downtown phoenix you'll see what i mean when i say Identity. Those neighborhoods are really cool and unique.

My house is an old house for phx standards (built in 1939) but it's not designated a historic property (yet) so i dont receive the tax break but i support the tax break. I think it's not culturally, socially, or financially wise to take it away. It encourages Phoenicians to value the historical architectural integrity of their city, something that we desperately need.

It does encourage people to fix up/maintain their old homes, which helps with upping the value of the neighborhoods (both financially and socially), which encourages people to move downtown, which reduces urban sprawl and commuter pollution/time, encourages local economic/cultural growth downtown, among many other things.

older homes do require more maintenance, but to me it's more environmentally friendly to fix up an old home vs building a completely new one 43 miles away from the center of town.

[chadk]

I understand wanting to preserve historic homes but older homes are really not worth anything besides sentimental historic value. They are terribly inefficient, require tons of maintenance, usually have extremely outdated wiring, and have weird undesirable oddities.

this is my main point as to why we need the tax break, to repair update, etc to really old homes costs a lot more then to a new home, which doesn't require such maintenance, and i am aware that all homes need maintenace,

Keep in mind that upgrading can kill the value of a house because you are ruining the authenticity of it.

with the tax break comes requirments that the homes retain historic value. as in i can't put an addition to the front of my house becasue it won't look like it did when they built it. or i can't have a structure in my backyard that can be seen from the front of the house. it's kind of like hoa requirments to maintain a specific look to the neighborhood.

[Rial]

I support the tax break for all the reasons Jacki stated...it kills me that they tear down all the mid century commercial in this town, let alone historical homes/buildings...and replace them with Baja Breeze or some shit that goes out of business or fake Tucscan P.O.S's

[raubhimself]

Keep in mind that upgrading can kill the value of a house because you are ruining the authenticity of it.

with the tax break comes requirments that the homes retain historic value. as in i can't put an addition to the front of my house becasue it won't look like it did when they built it. or i can't have a structure in my backyard that can be seen from the front of the house. it's kind of like hoa requirments to maintain a specific look to the neighborhood.

Here is an example from where I live though (and like I said I have no idea what historic homes there are like, the ones here are 150-250 years old, so OLD):
My mom's house has the original glass in almost all the windows. Actually all but the one kitchen window. This is a big part of it's worth and authenticity, but it is also the biggest offender on heat and a/c efficiency. So if you upgrade those windows, you destroy worth, and the building is losing it's historic value. Insulation is another problem being that there is virtually none. It's a brick house with thin walls. The floorboards are all old wood with knots that you can see through. Another huge part of the inefficiency. But fixing that inefficiency requires gutting the walls and floors. Even if you put back the original flooring, it's a huge undertaking. There is part of a chimney being held up by old wood beams and chicken wire above the kitchen. We didn't even know about it until an electrician saw it. It's definitely not safe, but there's not much to do besides remove the chimney.

We have people here who are extremely adamant about retaining the authenticity, that's why it is somewhat problematic. Maybe out there houses aren't old enough to have these same problems. But regardless of how old a house is, it will never last for ever. Preserving these buildings is temporary no matter how you slice it. If you keep it authentic it will rot away. Every minor upgrade is taking away some bit of history. And it's still possible to build interesting, non-cookie cutter homes without historic homes, even if cookie cutter is all the rage.

I love my home town for it's historic value. I certainly don't want to go bulldozing it in the name of efficiency. But at the same time I have watched people deal with this my entire life. It is a futile attempt at clinging to the past. You can't have your cake and eat it too is basically what I have learned.

<edit> I make the house I grew up in seem like a dilapidated rotting shell. That is not the case, it is an awesome house.

[differently biotic]

the cost and enery used to maintain a structure that goes against the very nature of it's environment is so lame.

I want an earth ship so bad.

[chadk]

i understand where you are coming from. our "historic" homes are 60 to a hundred years for the most part. i do have issues similar to your mom's, original windows etc, but i was able to put in new insulation, where there was original cotton to none in the attic. but yea our homes are old not crazy old.

[raubhimself]

i understand where you are coming from. our "historic" homes are 60 to a hundred years for the most part. i do have issues similar to your mom's, original windows etc, but i was able to put in new insulation, where there was original cotton to none in the attic. but yea our homes are old not crazy old.

gotcha. but eventually your home will be crazy old. and crazy outdated. that's why it is a futile attempt.

[chadk]

gotcha. but eventually your home will be crazy old. and crazy outdated. that's why it is a futile attempt

yes but this gop lady wants me to pay double my taxes right now, ef that

[raubhimself]

gotcha. but eventually your home will be crazy old. and crazy outdated. that's why it is a futile attempt

yes but this gop lady wants me to pay double my taxes right now, ef that

but aren't you paying half of what others are paying? i guess i just don't see the fairness in it.

[Jacki O.]

i understand where you are coming from. our "historic" homes are 60 to a hundred years for the most part. i do have issues similar to your mom's, original windows etc, but i was able to put in new insulation, where there was original cotton to none in the attic. but yea our homes are old not crazy old.

gotcha. but eventually your home will be crazy old. and crazy outdated. that's why it is a futile attempt.

everything's a futile attempt then.

Things get old and have to be torn down when the costs to maintain them outweigh the cost to tear down and build new.

60 year old homes in Phoenix don't require the maintenance that 200+ year old homes back East do. Different upkeep for different environments.

Our mentality that things are too old and outdated is such an American thing.

In Rome people are still living in homes built on top of Roman empire walls from before Jesus was born.

You can go visit the Roman Emperor Hadrian's palace and see where Raphael carved his name into a wall Graffiti-tag-style.

[chadk]

the fairness is in the level playing field,

where i am paying more money every year for more expensive neccesary maintance where newer home owners are paying less

i am paying less in taxes where new home owners are paying more

[raubhimself]

everything's a futile attempt then.

Things get old and have to be torn down when the costs to maintain them outweigh the cost to tear down and build new.

60 year old homes in Phoenix don't require the maintenance that 200+ year old homes back East do. Different upkeep for different environments.

Our mentality that things are too old and outdated is such an American thing.

I hope you don't think this is how I am thinking, because it's not. It's the can't have your cake and eat it too thing. You can upgrade your old home all you want. BUT, the more you upgrade the less historic it is. If you really value the historic and authentic value of it, upgrading goes completely against that. I honestly couldn't care less whether someone lives in a 200 year old dilapidated but authentic home or a 200 year old well kept but not really what it once was home. I certainly don't think we should be bulldozing old houses just because they are old. But at the end of the day this is a tax break to maintain some aesthetics which is kinda lame to me.

P.S. this is just one of those "I am bored and don't give a shit about work right now" moments so please, take this grain of salt. Also I wouldn't bitch one bit if I was a historic home owner so I'm a fucker like that.