16 replies to this topic

[Tender Lad]

Hmmm.

[Jacki O.]

“The laws are intended to make people fearful,” Pearce said. “If you’re in fear you’re going to be deported, that’s the reason we have laws. I’m not going to apologize we have laws against it (illegal immigration) and you’re in fear of those laws.”



i hate to point out Pearce's error in that above statement but according to the white people dictionary (Merriam Webster) the definition of law is:

1 a (1) : a binding custom or practice of a community : a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority (2) : the whole body of such customs, practices, or rules (3) : common law b (1) : the control brought about by the existence or enforcement of such law (2) : the action of laws considered as a means of redressing wrongs; also : litigation (3) : the agency of or an agent of established law c : a rule or order that it is advisable or obligatory to observe d : something compatible with or enforceable by established law e : control, authority
2 a often capitalized : the revelation of the will of God set forth in the Old Testament b capitalized : the first part of the Jewish scriptures : pentateuch, torah — see bible table
3 : a rule of construction or procedure <the laws of poetry>
4 : the whole body of laws relating to one subject
5 a : the legal profession b : law as a department of knowledge : jurisprudence c : legal knowledge
6 a : a statement of an order or relation of phenomena that so far as is known is invariable under the given conditions b : a general relation proved or assumed to hold between mathematical or logical expressions


i dont see anything about laws having the purpose to make a society fearful of them and their enacting bodies.

furthermore, that's a sad statement for a lawmaker to say. He believes the purpose of laws are to make people afraid? This is from someone who has the power to make the laws?


Sounds like something a nazi would say......

[Tender Lad]

A nazi... or a complete jerk-off... or both.

[Danosaur]

Russell Pearce is the biggest bigot, education hater in our Arizona Government. Did I mention he is a douchebag as well. He has nothing good to say about AZ education or AZ teachers. He is the epitamy of a white, upper crust fat bastard who cares little for humanity. He spearheaded the Propositon 300 a few years back that made it a requirement that any arizona funds for adult education be only spent on legal citizens. This killed my programs English aquistion classes to the point that this will probably be the last year we will hold them due to a lack of attendance. I could go on an on about this loser of a politician...but the only thing that needs to happen is that he is voted out next election.

[Jacki O.]

wasnt he like the head of the AZ public education department or something?

[fatguyaz]

can i enroll in a mexican school without any sort of citizenship/visa? What about other countries?

[Tony]

i don't like his tactics, and i especially don't like his "laws should make you afraid" stance, but i do believe in the following:

if i'm paying taxes that subsidize public services like schools (among other things), shouldn't people who are taking advantage of those services pay for them via taxes as well? to me it's not an immigration issue so much as a tax issue. and in that sense, if you're putting your child in school and not paying taxes, fuck you. especially for overburdening a system that needs all the help it can get, but to a lesser extent for taking away teacher attention and resources from families who do pay their taxes.

of course, allowing illegal immigrants to pay taxes (whether it's in an effort to become citizens or just to support the infrastructure that they're using) isn't xenophobic or racist enough for our state legislature, so i doubt that will be an option.

[Jacki O.]

they do pay sales taxes on any purchases they make in the US so essentially they are paying taxes.

[sonofpatter]

i don't like his tactics, and i especially don't like his "laws should make you afraid" stance, but i do believe in the following:

if i'm paying taxes that subsidize public services like schools (among other things), shouldn't people who are taking advantage of those services pay for them via taxes as well? to me it's not an immigration issue so much as a tax issue. and in that sense, if you're putting your child in school and not paying taxes, fuck you. especially for overburdening a system that needs all the help it can get, but to a lesser extent for taking away teacher attention and resources from families who do pay their taxes.

of course, allowing illegal immigrants to pay taxes (whether it's in an effort to become citizens or just to support the infrastructure that they're using) isn't xenophobic or racist enough for our state legislature, so i doubt that will be an option.

On the subject of taxes, illegal's subsidize our social security on a massive level. Because money gets taken out of their paychecks and they never will ask for it back. SO while you are pissed about the schools, they are pissed about that. More money goes out of your paycheck for social security than for your local schools. I realize our generation may never see Social Security but if the illegals were not subsdizing in now, a much larger chunk would be coming out of your paycheck. http://www.globalagi...005/illegal.htm

Illegal immigrants should be allowed in schools without fear. If a group of people are denied basic education, then they have no hope that the current system works for them, and then we will have a constantly growing underclass who don't give a fuck and become criminals and will cost us more over the long run.

A very quick internet search did not provide the exact numbers, but I know this from when I use to teach at-risk students. One high school dropout costs society on average $140,000 per year (mostly prison costs), while the cost of educating a child costs around $40,000 per year. So it pays to keep kids in school. If we deny a huge group a high school education, then it ends up costing us much much more in the long run.

[Tony]

they do pay sales taxes on any purchases they make in the US so essentially they are paying taxes.

i paid a fuckload in income and property taxes this year. not nearly as much as i did in sales tax. granted, i make more than the vast majority of the illegal immigrant population, but still, sales tax is a drop in the bucket compared to what the total tax bill should be.

i don't like his tactics, and i especially don't like his "laws should make you afraid" stance, but i do believe in the following:

if i'm paying taxes that subsidize public services like schools (among other things), shouldn't people who are taking advantage of those services pay for them via taxes as well? to me it's not an immigration issue so much as a tax issue. and in that sense, if you're putting your child in school and not paying taxes, fuck you. especially for overburdening a system that needs all the help it can get, but to a lesser extent for taking away teacher attention and resources from families who do pay their taxes.

of course, allowing illegal immigrants to pay taxes (whether it's in an effort to become citizens or just to support the infrastructure that they're using) isn't xenophobic or racist enough for our state legislature, so i doubt that will be an option.

On the subject of taxes, illegal's subsidize our social security on a massive level. Because money gets taken out of their paychecks and they never will ask for it back. SO while you are pissed about the schools, they are pissed about that. More money goes out of your paycheck for social security than for your local schools. I realize our generation may never see Social Security but if the illegals were not subsdizing in now, a much larger chunk would be coming out of your paycheck. http://www.globalagi...005/illegal.htm

Illegal immigrants should be allowed in schools without fear. If a group of people are denied basic education, then they have no hope that the current system works for them, and then we will have a constantly growing underclass who don't give a fuck and become criminals and will cost us more over the long run.

A very quick internet search did not provide the exact numbers, but I know this from when I use to teach at-risk students. One high school dropout costs society on average $140,000 per year (mostly prison costs), while the cost of educating a child costs around $40,000 per year. So it pays to keep kids in school. If we deny a huge group a high school education, then it ends up costing us much much more in the long run.

interesting. it assumes people are being paid above board and it's not all in cash and off the books (which i think is unrealistic, but i have no idea what the statistics are). i think it's valid to argue that i'm paying social security taxes as well. and if you want to come here and get a job, paying ss tax is the cost of doing business, whether you benefit from it or not. that said, i agree that they should be allowed in schools without fear - i just wish everyone could get on board with a way to pay for it.

[Jacki O.]

they do pay sales taxes on any purchases they make in the US so essentially they are paying taxes.

i paid a fuckload in income and property taxes this year. not nearly as much as i did in sales tax. granted, i make more than the vast majority of the illegal immigrant population, but still, sales tax is a drop in the bucket compared to what the total tax bill should be.

i don't like his tactics, and i especially don't like his "laws should make you afraid" stance, but i do believe in the following:

if i'm paying taxes that subsidize public services like schools (among other things), shouldn't people who are taking advantage of those services pay for them via taxes as well? to me it's not an immigration issue so much as a tax issue. and in that sense, if you're putting your child in school and not paying taxes, fuck you. especially for overburdening a system that needs all the help it can get, but to a lesser extent for taking away teacher attention and resources from families who do pay their taxes.

of course, allowing illegal immigrants to pay taxes (whether it's in an effort to become citizens or just to support the infrastructure that they're using) isn't xenophobic or racist enough for our state legislature, so i doubt that will be an option.

On the subject of taxes, illegal's subsidize our social security on a massive level. Because money gets taken out of their paychecks and they never will ask for it back. SO while you are pissed about the schools, they are pissed about that. More money goes out of your paycheck for social security than for your local schools. I realize our generation may never see Social Security but if the illegals were not subsdizing in now, a much larger chunk would be coming out of your paycheck. http://www.globalagi...005/illegal.htm

Illegal immigrants should be allowed in schools without fear. If a group of people are denied basic education, then they have no hope that the current system works for them, and then we will have a constantly growing underclass who don't give a fuck and become criminals and will cost us more over the long run.

A very quick internet search did not provide the exact numbers, but I know this from when I use to teach at-risk students. One high school dropout costs society on average $140,000 per year (mostly prison costs), while the cost of educating a child costs around $40,000 per year. So it pays to keep kids in school. If we deny a huge group a high school education, then it ends up costing us much much more in the long run.

interesting. it assumes people are being paid above board and it's not all in cash and off the books (which i think is unrealistic, but i have no idea what the statistics are). i think it's valid to argue that i'm paying social security taxes as well. and if you want to come here and get a job, paying ss tax is the cost of doing business, whether you benefit from it or not. that said, i agree that they should be allowed in schools without fear - i just wish everyone could get on board with a way to pay for it.

all i said was they aren't riding free and dirty completely. they do provide an economic benefit to our society as well. yes, it's not as much as you do, but they do none-the-less. So the whole "i pay taxes and they dont" is a little too black and white for me.

perhaps we should reform our immigration laws instead of punishing people that want to become citizens and pay the same amount of taxes as you but can't because our elected officials are racist nazis.

if we make it scary and hard for people to become american then no one will want to be american and then we can have this place all to ourselves!
hahahahahahaha

[Quezo]

I know this is oversimplifying it but this country was founded on immigration and has grown
into a place where the descendents of the original immigrants feel superior to the native
peoples and surrounding countries enough to call them alien to their previous land,
and criminalize pursuit of a better life for themselves and their families through hard
work on the edges of a society that doesn't take care of it's own poor.

[Tender Lad]

Doesn't sound over simplified to me.

[Jacki O.]

werd

it seems all the sudden everyone is complaining about having to take care of other people. Oh it's such a burden for our government to provide health care or education or streets.

why should my money have to go into a fund to pay for other people's health care?
why should my money go to have to pay for other people's education?


why the fuck not? why not be an awesome country. why not educate people whether they are legal or illegal?
especially if we're talking about children - that have/had no control over what country their parents take them to, did you have control over where you were born?

i honestly dont think it's a bad thing to be living in a state with educated people. i have no problem having my tax money go to educate someone else's child or go to pay for someone's health care. i dont make a lot of money but i make more than millions of people on this planet. i will share my wealth for education and health care. that's just good karma.

what's the worst that can happen if we educate illegal people's children? they grow up to go to college, invent the cure for AIDS, advance science, technology, art, music, literature? Get higher paying jobs than their parents and contribute more money to our society.

or they go back to their parent's country and make it better?

so evil!!!! we must not let this future happen!

[ToroRojo]

Well said Jackie.

I find it disheartening that a lot of the tea partiers have no problem with and actually support spending billions on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, but get upset about actually helping people.