33 replies to this topic

[differently biotic]

we wouldn't have those benefits if it wasn't for unions. period.

The union officials that get voted in can be feraking PITAS but the whole intitution is good for us, I feel. They really do look out for the worker.



edit** with power... corruption follows. I know. There is a lot of good done though at the same time as that shady chit.

[Rize]

I think unions have fairly benefited workers in cases of monopolistic practices. When a company either is a monopoly, or is a practical monopoly (a local monopoly, or colluding with other businesses) then workers can get the shaft. But an empowered union can quickly give the company the shaft and drain it to the point where it is barely surviving (and now and then you see a union go to far and a company closes down or has to shut down locations).

Meanwhile, in the case of government employees (public teacher's unions), there is a seemingly bottomless pit of wealth (taxes) for unions to drain. Only it isn't really bottomless hence the current situation in Wisconsin and other places.

[joe.distort]

oh, you mean the 137 million shortfall that was announced right after 140 million in tax breaks for corporations was signed off on?

unions may be just as capable of corruption as any other institution, but until everyone joins the union of WORKERS vs the much better armed union of THE RULING CLASS, we are all divided and the only one it benefits is the one counting all their earnings at the top of the pyramid. id rather us all be on one team then bicker about distractions like gay marriage, healthcare for the poor, abortion rights. these things further seperate people who really should all be fighting everything keeping us down.

until then, we are ALL that fat, unhealthy dipshit driving a 1987 geo with a BUSH/CHENEY 04 sticker. the bickering just lets the real harmful shit keep us all down even longer

[Rize]

Is there any democratic/liberal talking point any of you disagree with? I'm just curious because it seems highly suspicious to me that our political leaders should separate naturally into two different groups, one of which is right about almost everything and the other which is wrong about almost everything.

[Tony]

Is there any democratic/liberal talking point any of you disagree with? I'm just curious because it seems highly suspicious to me that our political leaders should separate naturally into two different groups, one of which is right about almost everything and the other which is wrong about almost everything.

yes.

although i'm probably one of the more conservative people on this board (everything is relative - i'm probably considered a hippie communist by my co-workers). and there are some conservative points i agree with (mostly fiscal - virtually every moral conservative position seems reprehensible).

[weener]

[Rize]

I'm not even a remotely strict libertarian and even if I was, that is a ridiculous caricature!

Truth is, I don't know what I am. Who knows, maybe the liberals do have it 95% right. Somehow I doubt it though.

[JJames]

In general, I think a unionized work force (or otherwise uncompetitive work force) is unnecessary and harmful.

you're right.. i hate safe working conditions, competitive pay, benefits, vacation.. i'm sure if there were no unions (and the government regulations they spurred on) that companies would simply give me all that stuff because they're run by very generous, nice people.

So only workers in unions have safe working conditions, competitive pay, benefits or vacation time?

Unions are what created these benefits and over time made them the norm through strikes and unionization in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Other employers had to compete for labor and conform to the benefits and security.

[hexaclopsclopsclops]

Unions are what created these benefits and over time made them the norm through strikes and unionization in the late 19th century and early 20th century. Other employers had to compete for labor and conform to the benefits and security.

Unfortunately, after the opening of the global marketplace, our workers - with their skills and rights - have to compete with people who have no such protections under the laws of the countries in which they live. Unionized US labor, in general, can't compete on the global scene. Is it right? No. Does it keep people saying things like,"right or wrong, I get my stuff cheap." Yes.

In the battle between workers' wages and consumers' prices, prices are winning. I don't think a lot of people connect the dots though.

[TV's Frink]

I have no idea why but when I'm "lazy reading" I tend to always misread "libertarian" as "librarian."

[hexaclopsclopsclops]

I have no idea why but when I'm "lazy reading" I tend to always misread "libertarian" as "librarian."

Deep down I think most librarians are libertarians

[joe.distort]

Is there any democratic/liberal talking point any of you disagree with? I'm just curious because it seems highly suspicious to me that our political leaders should separate naturally into two different groups, one of which is right about almost everything and the other which is wrong about almost everything.

im so far left that it doesnt really apply to the democratic party anymore, since they are just as full of shit. the only parties left in my mind are the ruling class and us. i have lost all faith in the political system any higher up than city level, and as far as i am concerned 95% of politicians are wrong 95% of the time. everyone tries to protect the interest of money and commerce instead of the people.

AND back to the main thread topic, i was meeting with hematologists and oncologists whose patient bases are getting healthcare pulled from them IN THE MIDDLE OF TREATMENT COURSES. this is so fucked up. what a mess.

[unluckycharm]

Is there any democratic/liberal talking point any of you disagree with? I'm just curious because it seems highly suspicious to me that our political leaders should separate naturally into two different groups, one of which is right about almost everything and the other which is wrong about almost everything.

im so far left that it doesnt really apply to the democratic party anymore, since they are just as full of shit. the only parties left in my mind are the ruling class and us. i have lost all faith in the political system any higher up than city level, and as far as i am concerned 95% of politicians are wrong 95% of the time. everyone tries to protect the interest of money and commerce instead of the people.

AND back to the main thread topic, i was meeting with hematologists and oncologists whose patient bases are getting healthcare pulled from them IN THE MIDDLE OF TREATMENT COURSES. this is so fucked up. what a mess.

I agree to a large extent with your sentiments (on politics). Eventually it all becomes a machine, a steamroller if you will.

edit: not sure how left I am, I don't like labels. but i would guess most people would label me left (as I would think "uncategorizable weirdo" means left to most people).

(I know this is an old post, kinda silly to reply to it)

[donald]

necro bump

[Big Jilm]

Well dang if I didn't run head first into "compassionate conservatism" about a month ago. I've been without health insurance for some time. It was getting really expensive- my premiums were going up every quarter and just got to be too much.
Middle of December I start feeling really cold. Can't get warm and start shivering uncontrollably even though I'm under blankets and have the heat cranked. It gets to the point where I know I need to get to the E.R. before I can no longer drive. Turns out I have a soft tissue infection turning my leg red and a fever over 103 degrees. They admit me to the hospital for four days. When the representative comes around to discuss insurance it was, "are you pregnant?". "Are you a single parent with dependent children?". The answers were no, so I am on the hook for the entire hospital bill which was subtotaled at that time to be over 11K. Since I was uninsured and a "cash" customer, it was reduced to under four grand. At my current earnings I will be paying that off for years. If I end up having to put any of it on a credit card, it will be at 30% interest.
Oddly enough, that is STILL cheaper than the money I would have paid in insurance premiums for the period I've been uninsured. I was just lucky that I didn't need more tests or actual surgery or I'd be really screwed.
I ask conservatives this and never get a good answer: "This is the greatest nation this earth has ever seen- THE most powerful country in existence. Shouldn't we be able to provide all our citizens with some basic level of health care? If not out of the good Christian ethic of helping the needy, at least for the common economic benefit of having a healthy populace?" "Do you want your co-workers, employees, ANYONE you or your family might meet in the course of a day, to be on the job working with a deadly communicable disease simply because they can't afford to see a doctor and get a $10 prescription that will cure them?"

Another funny anecdote: It is election season again and I'm starting to see those wonderful forwarded emails from conservative relatives and acquaintances. The last one was a recording of a call-in to a radio talk show. The caller says they are a neurosurgeon who has just left a conference in Washington where they learned about the finer points of Obama's health care law. The host and caller are riled up about how the new bill will not pay for certain medical procedures on the elderly and instead just pays for, essentially, 'hospice care'. If you're old, Obama is going to just let you die instead of paying for that expensive operation.
My reply:
"Let me get this straight. Conservatives did everything in their power to kill, gut, or bend to their will, the Health Care initiative. NOW they've got their panties in a bunch because this particular corner of Socialism doesn't go FAR ENOUGH in scope or coverage?!!? ... and are blaming Obama?" STFU!

So. I need some cash. If you need anything guitar or musical instrument related, why not buy it from me instead of the evil big box store?