62 replies to this topic

[distort]

i think that even the idea of scene unity is stupid. it has all sorts of implications that are just flat out dumb. it suggests theres some sense of loyalty you're supposed to have to bands/venues/people simply because they are "punk" or a "part of the scene". go to shows because you want to see the band, not because you feel obligated to "support the scene". hang out with people because you like them, not because they're involved in "the scene". Theres plenty of other reasons its dumb. If you want to start a band, a venue, a website, a zine, whatever... do it because you want to, not because its "good for the scene". Shitty bands dont deserve support simply because they claim they are "part of the punk scene". Likewise, plenty of bands go under the radar because they don't spew the correct "scene" rhetoric. If you're going to shows simply to feel like you're a part of a club, you're going to shows for pretty goofy reasons.

However, I do agree that flyers need to be better.

is that why your band leaves after you play and you don't stick around to watch the other acts? just curious. because i thought it was shitty and amateurish, but now that i know your philosophy i guess it makes sense.

we don't make a habit of leaving right after we play. If theres nothing else we have to be at afterwards and the other bands interest me, i'll stick around. Don't remember the specific circumstances of that night though. I think it was mostly because none of us really liked any of the other bands playing, so not much point in staying to watch. i'm not up in arms about all the people that showed up afterward and didn't get there in time to see us, nor should you be concerned about what bands i watch or dont watch. I would think you're a fool if you stuck around after your set to watch a band you had no interest in watching simply because you felt "obligated". Why waste the time, ya know? I appreciate you're interest in my presence at shows, but my opinion on bands matters as much as anyone elses... which isn't much at all.

fair enough.

want to come help us flyer for shizzfest tonight?

regardless of whether or not I want to, im driving to LA tonight so I can't... sorry. I'm sure you're fest will do well.

[bob]

i agree with distort to a certain extent, scene politics are, at best, annoying, and i think everyone reading already knows all about it, can of worms and all that, but when someone puts your band on a bill or puts up your artwork or whatever, or supports your band or work in that sort of way- promoting your show, or sharing the responsibility of getting bodies through the door, or however you want to put it, you are obligated to show that mutual support whether you're interested in them as an artist or not. of course, tony's band is the brunt of the one time a band i was in ignored common decency and everything else i've said right here, and i'm still trying to pay that down. so he's probably rolling his eyes, as he should be. but sometimes you gotta go to work, or pick up the kids, or go to your best friend's show down the street, or get some goddamn sleep, but no one is talking about that.

i will say that arizona seems a lot better at this than, say, the scene around the smell in LA. if your unknown band gets the wrong slot there, all the local bands and their fans are gone and you play to jim, your one buddy that showed up and the sound guy, if s/he doesn't go outside to smoke. i've never had that in arizona- just where no one comes in the first place. and if distort had his way, there would be a lot more shows like that (and not to say the smell sucks, the smell is fucking awesome. blah blah blah.) but if everyone thought like distort, unknown bands would have a much harder time than they already do here.

but if distort actually believed any of what he said, he wouldn't post stuff on the shizz. he'd move to LA and try to get his career off the ground.

[distort]

i agree with distort to a certain extent, scene politics are, at best, annoying, and i think everyone reading already knows all about it, can of worms and all that, but when someone puts your band on a bill or puts up your artwork or whatever, or supports your band or work in that sort of way- promoting your show, or sharing the responsibility of getting bodies through the door, or however you want to put it, you are obligated to show that mutual support whether you're interested in them as an artist or not. of course, tony's band is the brunt of the one time a band i was in ignored common decency and everything else i've said right here, and i'm still trying to pay that down. so he's probably rolling his eyes, as he should be. but sometimes you gotta go to work, or pick up the kids, or go to your best friend's show down the street, or get some goddamn sleep, but no one is talking about that.

i will say that arizona seems a lot better at this than, say, the scene around the smell in LA. if your unknown band gets the wrong slot there, all the local bands and their fans are gone and you play to jim, your one buddy that showed up and the sound guy, if s/he doesn't go outside to smoke. i've never had that in arizona- just where no one comes in the first place. and if distort had his way, there would be a lot more shows like that (and not to say the smell sucks, the smell is fucking awesome. blah blah blah.) but if everyone thought like distort, unknown bands would have a much harder time than they already do here.

but if distort actually believed any of what he said, he wouldn't post stuff on the shizz. he'd move to LA and try to get his career off the ground.

you are misunderstanding me. I did not say DONT support bands. I said that feeling OBLIGATED to support bands you ALREADY dont like is stupid. I'm not advocating ignoring bands you've never heard, or not giving bands a shot. My presence at a show that I dont want to be at in the first place isn't helping a touring or unknown band in any way, especially if my band PLAYED that show and I didnt have to pay to be there in the first place.

Second of all, I'm not involved in music with the intent of trying to "make a career" out of it. The projects I involve myself in are because I enjoy them. I have played the smell. My band has records out. I'm doing exactly what I want to do, on my own terms, exactly how I want it done. Posting my shows/releases/etc on the shizz isnt contradictory to the ideas ive previously expressed. I'm not expecting any of you to come see my band, or a show I booked, out of a feeling of "obligation" to the scene or to me personally for putting effort into something. I hope someone comes across it who genuinely might find it interesting or appealing. Hell, even if someone wants to come out to protest my band, or kick the shit out of me, at least they are doing it for their own reasons, and not for some false "scene unity" bullshit.

I still stand by everything I have said.

[Rocquero]

FUCKIN' CAN of WORMS TK, CAN-OF-WORMS

[distort]

man you guys dont know what real messageboards are like if you think THIS is a can of worms. Simply a little debate. You should check out the ArizonaHardcore board circa the "Our scene is being threatened by a swarm of flying kicks" thread

[Melkor]

no doubt. azpunk used to get kinda fun with politics and the what is punk threads and then the invasions of SD punks.

[Folofo]

uh.....so can fatigo play Jugheads?

[bisbee slim]

uh.....so can fatigo play Jugheads?

fatigo are jugheads.

zing.

[hunter gather]

I like playing shows cause you get to see other bands for free and usually meet some damn good people and hear some tunes. If you're not interested in the other bands, don't play. If you play with bands you somehow don't think are worth your time or attention, then you're just getting down with self-promotion and probably don't give a fuck about friendship or community.

Sounds jerky, but that's just kind of how I feel.







And, I'd play with Fatigo at Jugheads any day.

[JJames]

I mainly think that a music community is important. Not as a way to be obligated to attend shows or to have to like everyband that comes around. I think having a strong music community serves as a good agent of awareness among others outside of the usual clientele. It also gives different exposure of a variety of music to lots of people that would otherwise be unaware. I don’t like the term music scene as much as a community. A scene implies that it is something hip or some exclusive clique instead of supportive positive minded musicians working together as a cohesive unit. If you don’t like a band, you don't HAVE TO work with them so DON'T. Its not your responsibility to promote the band but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THEM A DEGREE OF RESPECT. Not only is it courteous but it is a necessity. How can anyone expect to feel welcome in a community of artists if they are not given any respect or rather given disrespect. If we are all divided and filled with spite, loathing, or any ill-will we will NEVER achieve what we could if we respected each other or worked together. This being said, I am not into some stuff. I’m just not into it. How many run-of-the-mill acts have we all "scene"?(PUN) There are genres and even bands that I just can't enjoy, but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn't give them a chance or at least some respect for expressing themselves. How else can we ever feel free and comfortable to the point were we can share our music? Music is a personal thing which is why we should still be supportive. I always stay at shows for at least a little longer and try to talk to people and engage them. You would be surprised how much you have in common with someone that is completely different than you music wise.

I like playing shows cause you get to see other bands for free and usually meet some damn good people and hear some tunes.

yesss

[MattChedda]

I mainly think that a music community is important. Not as a way to be obligated to attend shows or to have to like everyband that comes around. I think having a strong music community serves as a good agent of awareness among others outside of the usual clientele. It also gives different exposure of a variety of music to lots of people that would otherwise be unaware. I don’t like the term music scene as much as a community. A scene implies that it is something hip or some exclusive clique instead of supportive positive minded musicians working together as a cohesive unit. If you don’t like a band, you don't HAVE TO work with them so DON'T. Its not your responsibility to promote the band but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THEM A DEGREE OF RESPECT. Not only is it courteous but it is a necessity. How can anyone expect to feel welcome in a community of artists if they are not given any respect or rather given disrespect. If we are all divided and filled with spite, loathing, or any ill-will we will NEVER achieve what we could if we respected each other or worked together. This being said, I am not into some stuff. I’m just not into it. How many run-of-the-mill acts have we all "scene"?(PUN) There are genres and even bands that I just can't enjoy, but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn't give them a chance or at least some respect for expressing themselves. How else can we ever feel free and comfortable to the point were we can share our music? Music is a personal thing which is why we should still be supportive. I always stay at shows for at least a little longer and try to talk to people and engage them. You would be surprised how much you have in common with someone that is completely different than you music wise.

I like playing shows cause you get to see other bands for free and usually meet some damn good people and hear some tunes.

yesss

Amen! Totally agree. Justin muthafucking james everyone! BANG!

[Hooray For Everything]

The 'scene' conversation is always very interesting to me....

Some people are nice, but have lame bands, some people are jerks and have good bands.

So, do you support the nice people, or the good bands?

Does one want a scene of nice people or of good bands?

Now, obviously, there is a lot of grey area there..

A lot of locals that I respect DON'T really associate themselves with a scene...or at least I am not privvy to knowing their scene.

On the downside, scenes can become an overprotective bubble, and not be inclusive of good bands, because someone doesn't like someone.

There are actually a few, somewhat like-minded, bands in this town, who could very much benefit by playing together, but can't, or won't, because of personal issues.

That doesn't strengthen a "music" scene, maybe it strengthens a clique, but not a "music" scene...and I suppose that's the issue with a scene, is the fact that as much as it purports to be about INclusion in theory, it ends being about exclusion in practice.

Perhaps scenes are about music, and cliques are about personalities, I dunno.

Or maybe it's a scene when you're in it, and a clique when you're not.


Chad?

I mainly think that a music community is important. Not as a way to be obligated to attend shows or to have to like everyband that comes around. I think having a strong music community serves as a good agent of awareness among others outside of the usual clientele. It also gives different exposure of a variety of music to lots of people that would otherwise be unaware. I don’t like the term music scene as much as a community. A scene implies that it is something hip or some exclusive clique instead of supportive positive minded musicians working together as a cohesive unit. If you don’t like a band, you don't HAVE TO work with them so DON'T. Its not your responsibility to promote the band but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THEM A DEGREE OF RESPECT. Not only is it courteous but it is a necessity. How can anyone expect to feel welcome in a community of artists if they are not given any respect or rather given disrespect. If we are all divided and filled with spite, loathing, or any ill-will we will NEVER achieve what we could if we respected each other or worked together. This being said, I am not into some stuff. I’m just not into it. How many run-of-the-mill acts have we all "scene"?(PUN) There are genres and even bands that I just can't enjoy, but this doesn’t mean that we shouldn't give them a chance or at least some respect for expressing themselves. How else can we ever feel free and comfortable to the point were we can share our music? Music is a personal thing which is why we should still be supportive. I always stay at shows for at least a little longer and try to talk to people and engage them. You would be surprised how much you have in common with someone that is completely different than you music wise.

I like playing shows cause you get to see other bands for free and usually meet some damn good people and hear some tunes.

yesss

Indeed, very eloquent.

[hunter gather]

I like drunk-typing at 2 a.m. and re-reading my posts the next day!

And I really like what the shizz is doing in terms of building a community and bringing bands that would never play together otherwise together.

It's fucking cool and this is a damn interesting thread, if I do say so.

[distort]

Its not your responsibility to promote the band but it IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO GIVE THEM A DEGREE OF RESPECT.

It's not my responsibility to give every band I come across any degree of respect. It is their job to earn it. I'm not going to DISRESPECT a band out of nowhere, but I dont think leaving a show early is any sign of disrespect. If you think it is, then you're being too insecure about your band. I once left a show right after I played because my girlfriend was locked out of our house and didnt have a key. As I was packing up, a certain elder of the "hardcore scene" made a point to scream and yell at us (me and the other person leaving with me), because we weren't "sticking around to support the touring band". When I explained that I had to let my girlfriend into our house, she refused to believe me, and proceded to yell in my face until I got in the car and left. So stupid.

If we are all divided and filled with spite, loathing, or any ill-will we will NEVER achieve what we could if we respected each other or worked together

Not sure where this idea has come about that not supporting bands you dont like is the equivalent of being filled with "spite, loathing and ill-will". I didnt say any of that. I definitely support the idea of people encouraging each other, working together or collaborating with other artists you respect or enjoy. However, I don't think this constitutes a "scene". A scene implies a group of people supportive of anything and everything else another "member of the scene" does. now, maybe this isnt the working definition, but any "scene" i've ever witnessed has these unspoken rules. If someone within the scene speaks out about something he doesnt like that is going on within the community, almost all the time he is "shunned", harassed or even assaulted. This is the idea of a scene that I am against. Not simply collaborating with people you respect.

How else can we ever feel free and comfortable to the point were we can share our music? Music is a personal thing which is why we should still be supportive.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. If it is so "personal", why is everyone so worried about what others think, and not only what others think, but how they react to your band. I don't play in bands with the hopes that as soon as I finish my set all my friends and people at the show will come pat me on the back, and I can feel really good about myself, or whatever. I think the point of doing this, for me, at least, is because its something I like to do, regardless of what others think of it. If they can take something from it, great. If not, great. If it takes years before people "understand", great. If they never do, whatever.

I always stay at shows for at least a little longer and try to talk to people and engage them. You would be surprised how much you have in common with someone that is completely different than you music wise.

There are plenty of people who I have a lot in common with, who don't share my music taste. In fact, I genuinely DISLIKE most people I've come across who share my taste in music. This really has nothing to do with any sort of closed-mindedness based on someones music preference.

[Jacki O.]

im not in a band but i like to go to shows. i like to listen to new local bands and old local bands that i already love. i can't make it to every show though, and i can't always stay through an entire show, especially with 16 fucking bands on the roster.

i'll go see a band play even if the drummer is an old ex who i dislike greatly. i'll go check out a show if there's a shizz logo and an azpunk logo on the flyer.

i think you dicks are arguing about what the rules should be. but there are no rules in a "community" and if you live in phx, you are part of a community, whether you like it or not.

also...this is an interesting thread read!