121 replies to this topic

[Brodie]

last night, spoon played the wiltern in LA. 2300 capacity theatre. two days ago, charlie had LESS THAN 100 presale tickets sold. im just really pissed that a good friend of mine just lost a shit ton of money, on a show that was supposed to be a celebration of him bringing good music to this town. this town has spoken, loud and clear. this town said "the only people here who care about art/music, are artists and musicians. the kicker is that today is his birthday. awesome.

I'm sorry that your friend had a shitty thing happen on his birthday, and I appreciate the 10 yrs. of shows.

However...

L.A. pop. = 3,819,951
PHX pop. = 1,388,416

2300 out of nearly 4 million is not as good as 100 out of 1.4 million.

Granted, I understand YOUR point. I'm just saying... this ain't L.A.

Maybe at this rate, we'll never be.

But with a smaller market, and a smaller number of interested parties, you better have an interesting show. And to use a completely hypothetical example (and not to take a shot at ANY one)... if Rueben's Accomplice plays every major show, and not everyone is a Rueben's Accomplice fan, how long are you going to be able to keep people coming to shows? And wouldn't an Andrew Jackson Jihad do just as well, if not better, if given that same opportunity, that same stage, that automatically goes to Rueben's Accomplice?

(And again, I choose them, because I don't think me "bashing" on them in a hypothetical scenario is going to take away from their fan base or CD sales in the least...)

Just kicking around some ideas here.

EDIT: I posted this before I saw your other response. I'm not picking on any promoter or band specifically, I'm saying this is an overall problem in this thing of ours. You and I know, but for anyone else reading, I should mention... we really are on the same side here. I'm just not as quick to point the finger at the average non-musician show-goer who doesn't neccessarily post to the Shizz, read pitchforkmedia, or subscribes to a TickerTape Parade or Brodie Hubbard mailing list.

Edited by Brodie, 17 November 2005 - 06:31 PM.

[bob]

why cant he/you/they just move the show somewhere smaller then? i mean... if there is an interest in it.
it seems to me that if the show was well promoted, people would go see spoon. they are a big band. for white people. i really don't know anything about this, i just don't understand all the boo-hoo-ing. shows get cancelled. you're acting like you have no control. sometimes you don't, but if the show is a celebration, it seems to me, that it could be very easily reworked. it could just be that a big indyrock show at the mesa ampetheater could've just been a bad idea from the get go. The only show I've seen at Mesa Ampetheater was Green Day. I went for free. All I remember thinking was man, I wish this was somewhere else. And, Man, I hope i never have to come here again. That's really beside the point. I don't think its really a reflection on anything. and i'm just sticking my neck in because i don't have anything better to do.

[church]

everything else aside.....


the last reubens accomplice record is one of the absolute fucking best records i have ever heard, and i have been listening to records seriously since 1975.....have any of you even listened to this album?

and, bob, you can't just move a show

[guitarduane]

from another point of view....

yes, i see some of the same of the same bands on certain promoter's/venues shows all the time. however, for this particular show, to say the local bands had anything to do with it not selling, it just doesn't work for me and here is why. the three "typical charlie" bands (el oso negro, ttp and reuben's) all have not played out frequently for a long time! this felt more like a homecoming to me than "another charlie show". not sure if that is what you were implying brodie, if not, sorry.

i don't know, i just look at this line up and i'm amazed that there were only 100 presales!! too close to holiday? everyone leaving town? wtf! is everyone tired of festival shows? i understand they can be long, but this one wasn't even festival priced!!! $22!! are you kidding me!!

[Brodie]

My math is a little bad.

But I think that the leap to 4 mil from 1 mil is quite exponential. I hope someone who understands what I mean by that (I don't know if I'm being clear...) can better explain my point.

Also, Duane, I'm not saying the local openers had everything to do with the show getting cancelled (I'm not saying it had NOTHING to do with it, either... but I was just using Reuben's as a hypothetical example, I could have picked any band), I was more speaking to our friend's general disillusion with the town. I'm not blaming any promoter or venue or band. Maybe I'm blaming ALL promoters, venues, and/or bands.

I'm saying as a community, I think things are a little stale. I think the way to cater to a fickle audience (as Aaron rightly points out) is to come up with inventive shows (and for the record, I thought this was a good concept, I would have liked to seen a festival get launched here... our own Coachella... I came up in the era of Goleta Fests and Slap-a-Ham Fiesta Grandes).

And I do see many of us trying... and as in anything in life, if it's not working, try a little harder.

Let's look at what we can do to spice things up before we start blaming the patrons.

Having said all that... I don't want to comment on the particular show or promoter this thread's about, his business is not really my business, I just hope to keep going to the cool shows he does (and maybe play on one of those shows sometime... when I can get myself off the couch and get a demo and kit in his hand... I've wanted to complain about not getting bigger shows before, than I realized, I might need more than a MySpace account and my sweet, sweet ass). I don't think there's anything wrong with friends helping friends, I do it all the time when I book shows.

I just wonder if, say, TD Reisert, would be as "big" (whatever that means) as El Oso Negro if TD Reisert was given a show that would have gone to El Oso Negro. I wonder if Tickertape Parade and Peachcake would be hanging in Hollywood with Kelly Osborne if they were given the same stage as Har Mar Superstar or The Used. Necronauts, Fatigo, and Lonna Kelley and the Reluctant Messiahs should be getting the mainstream attention that Franz Ferdinand, The White Stripes, and Dashboard Confessional get.

Landmine Marathon should be bigger than Coheed and Cambria.

Night Wolf should be given a bigger record contract than Gwen Stefani.

Brodie Hubbard should have Scott Sapp for a pool boy!!!

I LOVE AZ!!!! PHOENIX ROCK CITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[President Gator]

Where to begin? Well for starters for those of you who do not know me, my name is Jeremiah and I run a small promotion/management company called President Gator. I happen to be a good friend of Charlie’s, as well manage one of the local groups that was supposed to perform on Saturday. I feel the cancellation of this Festival does show a lot about Phoenix and as a fellow promoter here’s my opinions:
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bob – “i think its because those bands suck.”

Well I don’t think so and I think a lot of people in this town would agree with me. I have personally put on shows for six of the bands that were supposed to play and every time it was a great turn out. For example: When I did Hellogoodbye I had to turn away around 300 people because it over sold the venue and the last Limbeck show did 211.
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Brodie – “I'm still not sure why this festival got cancelled, I'm guessing low ticket sales...”

Yes, as a fellow promoter I can tell you low ticket sales will result in the cancellation of a show. You have to know when to cut your losses and when you only pre-sell 350 tickets to a 4,200 capacity venue with only two days left till the show then I’d say it’s time to cancel the show too.
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Brodie – “…something that has always bothered me…is that companies like Stateside, companies like Luckyman, etc., always seem to use the same local opening acts on their show…isn't it possible…that some shows are poorly attended because the local show-going audience are sick of seeing the same bands? Maybe those bands aren't interesting anymore?...I do notice that a lot of the bands I like and respect stick to the Trunk Space/Four White Walls/Paper Heart market.”

First off that is not true at all, Stateside has put The Necronauts on Built to Spill, Colorstore and Andrew Jackson Jihad on Less Pain Forever, Swordfish on The Frames, Peachcake on Explosions in the Sky and The Go! Team, Skybox on Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Steel Train, and Dios (malos) along with Fine China and Asleep in the Sea, just to name a few.

Second, the last Reuben’s Accomplice, Ticket Tape Parade, El Oso Negro, or Peachcake shows I did all did over 100 people. I don’t think some shows are poorly attended because the local show-going audiences are sick of seeing the same bands. Case and point: a show comprised of “the same local bands” sold 1,700 tickets at The Marquee Theatre a little while back.

Finally, I don't want to name names, because I don't want to detract from the integrity or quality of those bands as well, but if the bands that stick to the Trunk Space/Four White Walls/Paper Heart market were put on The Grand Cayenne Festival instead there would have been a lot less than 350 pre-sale tickets.
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Brodie – “If we want people to come to our shows, we have to do a better job promoting, and we have to make sure what we're promoting is good stuff.”

bob – “…it seems to me that if the show was well promoted, people would go see spoon. they are a big band. for white people.”

I think Charlie did everything he could finically and resourcefully to promote this Festival and I think it was “good stuff.” For those of you who do not know Stateside is run by one man, Charlie Levy, it’s not Clear Channel.

As for the racist comment “for white people”, I don’t know what that was supposed to mean.
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bob – “why cant he/you/they just move the show somewhere smaller then? i mean... if there is an interest in it.”

It’s not that easy. First, finding another venue last minute to move the show would be next to impossible, let alone making sure everyone knew about the change. Not to mention the financial implications. Do you have any idea how much some of those bands guarantees are? Just to break even on the festival I’m sure Charlie needed around 2,000-3,000 people to show up. Just to break even!
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Anyways, those are just one promoter’s opinions.

[unluckycharm]

it's unfortunate this all fell though
personally it seems to me mesa amph. is too big a venue for these bands (but i'm not a promoter, so what do i know?) every band i've seen there has had a sizeable hit album going & i don't think that holds true for spoon, black heart p, etc....as much as i like those bands....

[dharma_bum]

i don't know, i just look at this line up and i'm amazed that there were only 100 presales!! too close to holiday? everyone leaving town? wtf! is everyone tired of festival shows? i understand they can be long, but this one wasn't even festival priced!!! $22!! are you kidding me!!

maybe charlie should've had mesa amp as a backup and started with a smaller venue just to see how ticket sales progressed?

[Big_Poppa]

Sorry to hear about this show getting cancelled. I noticed the show advertised several different places so I don't think it was due to a lack of promotion. Charlie has done great things around town for a long time and me and my random bands have certainly been the beneficiaries of his hard work. (Vin Fiz is forever indebted just for the opportunity to play with Mike Watt last year and Rusty Jones played the New Years show he mentioned in the New Times article with the Friends of Dean Martinez.

Anyways, if you are going to be on the eastside Saturday anyways why don't you come drown your sorrows with us over at the Hollywood Alley?
We'd love to have you and....
---no one is going to tell you to leave at 10:30pm.
---your allergies won't act up due to the grass and dust
---the beer is MUCH cheaper
---little kids won't be there trying to mooch cigarettes from you
---no ticketmaster surcharge