177 replies to this topic

[donald]

the place you are referring to is hot pink
I live right by there so on fridays I have to be careful not to hit any drunk pedestrians as I drive by coming back from shotfest.

[donald]

yes I know shotfest was on a saturday.

[President Gator]

...if monday night football guy would take his wife to see sleepy time gorrilla museum, it would blow their minds...

...and Scott and I wouldn't have lost our asses on that show. No wonder Leslie and Charlie both turned down the show, less than 150 paid.

[President Gator]

...and silly me thought it might just sell out a small venue like The Rhythm Room.

[ShawnPhase]

I don't know man ... I was gonna touch on this as the major problem with young people not going to rock shows. If you go to that club on McDowell around 15th Ave (can't remember the name ... Carumba's or something?) on a weekend, the place is PACKED with people. Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd. They are blaring prerecorded dance music from a mega-watt system, mostly like Billy Idol, Franz Ferdinand, dancable stuff. In the '60s, teenagers and young people went to dances and parties and the music was live. Surf bands, pysch bands, pop bands, teenagers hung out and had a good time watching bands. Greg Sage told me that when he was a kid he saw the Strawberry Alarm Clock play at a Pizza joint. Original live music was ENTERTAINMENT back then, and now it is not. People like prerecorded music, people like blaring digital beats & hip-hop and the don't care for somehing new & different unless MTV or Spin magazine tells them its new & different. The other problem with the scene is that anyone over the age of 15 who can afford to buy a guitar & amp has a band these days, and they start playing shows very quickly. There are more musicians than listeners, and musicians tend to care more about their own band than anyone else's. I think the basic problem is the "normal" people are not motivated to see local shows.

from what i hear, this is a very similar sentiment coming from a lot of towns in the US. its just drekking up places that bands perform at...and its getting worse.

the new core dance plague of 2005.

[Kristopher]

What amazes me is how many people don't regularly go to the Tempe Borders local band thing every Friday night at 9. It's free, and there's a different local act each week. My g/f and I make it a habit to get ice cream and go see the free show. Even if it sucks, there's still time to pile in the car and go somewhere, and I got to check out some of that reading stuff they have there.

[vitaminardi]

Just because it happens to work in another city does not guarantee that it will work in phoenix. I don't believe any of the other cities mentioned, omaho, austin, seattle, etc. whined and cried until they finally had a collection of artists that functioned as a "cool" scene.

i couldn't agree more.

and it also doesn't surprise me that it came from someone outside of the city.

just as its pointless to compare yourself to other people, its a big waste of time comparing your city's collection of musicians or your "scene" to other scenes. phoenix has produced some pretty amazing bands and musicians.

phoenix has always been in a perpetual state of being the next big thing that never really happens. it most likely will never happen.

it took moving away from phoenix to see how detatched and disconnected people are in phoenix. the average person wakes up, drives to work, works for 8 hrs, drives home, watches tv, and it starts over again.

if you're a working adult, how often are you in the company of strangers? how often do think about people who can't afford cars, and who have to take the bus? have you EVER been on a bus in phoenix? do you own a bicycle? do you see to realities of the priveleges that people of your class, gender, race, education, etc. have?

people there don't need to care about anything, much less checking out some band across town. i feel strongly that phoenix's failures to its art and music community is directly linked to its political apathy, emotional detachment, conservatism and its unsustainable consumerist culture.

its a big problem everywhere-- in chicago, for example, the gap between rich and poor is thrown in your face every fucking day, and i think in phoenix, its just conveniently ignored.

i see a lot of political apathy on this bored. i see peolple who take strong opinions on anything get attacked by everyone. why should political posts be taboo? what the fuck?

i mentioned some stuff in an earlier post, but none seemed to want to really challenge or address them.

anyone wish to comment?

happy thanksgiving!

[unluckycharm]

I think you are mistaking a genuine concern and lament for whining.

a genuine concern yes, in the context of desiring a consistent means for entertainment there in phx.

maybe i missed the point of this thread entirely. it seemed like a couple of people were asking, "why aren't we cool?" "why would anyone want to stay home and watch tv and try to get up on their wives rather than go to this smokey bar and watch my super original indie rock jams?"

Do you think mc5, the dolls,television,stooges or the ramones sat down together, brainstormed and wrote up a five year plan on how to create a scene? everyone hated those bands when they first started playing but you wouldn't know it by watching vh1 because they make it seem like they were all friends and working together to create this hip new style called punk. they never mention portland or greg sage on those mockumentaries either....

artists are at the bottom of the food chain,always have been. get over it. starving...

if you want the "football guys" and these imagined "normal" people to come see your shows, write some songs about football and normal things. ???!!?

the football guys already have Ramones songs blasting ... 'hey ho, let's go' they don't need anymore.

[nathan]

it took moving away from phoenix to see how detatched and disconnected people are in phoenix. the average person wakes up, drives to work, works for 8 hrs, drives home, watches tv, and it starts over again.

Perfectly stated. I have a countless number of friends that claim this city is dead and wish that something was happening, but never make an attempt at doing something. Television, video games and internet are cool things, but they sap so many people of his/her drive, motivation and potential.

[JMG3]

QUOTE - vitaminardi, whatever day yesterday was (sorry, i forgot to quote on the board!) SCROLL UP!
"it took moving away from phoenix to see how detatched and disconnected people are in phoenix. the average person wakes up, drives to work, works for 8 hrs, drives home, watches tv, and it starts over again.
people there don't need to care about anything, much less checking out some band across town. i feel strongly that phoenix's failures to its art and music community is directly linked to its political apathy, emotional detachment, conservatism and its unsustainable consumerist culture.
its a big problem everywhere-- in chicago, for example, the gap between rich and poor is thrown in your face every fucking day, and i think in phoenix, its just conveniently ignored."

(for the record, also lived in austin, tx for a bit)
it amazes me how some folks think they've got all the answers!
it's also quite remarkable how many of those who've talked quite a bit of shit about phx don't even live here! ignorance must be bliss!
chin up phoenix, they didn't mean it, they just don't know... you're (slowly) on your way...
i guess i'm (god forbid!) challenging mr. minardi!
i do my best to support the musical cosa nostra out here, despite the fact that i don't drive anymore,
i have been taking the bus quite a bit, and enjoy it.
it gives me time to think, and i've met some very interesting people...
when i drove, i felt as though i was trapped in a steel box, isolated, with no real interaction at all. yeah tv sucks. and cell phones (neither of which i own) i'm on the internet now, and a hypocrite.
i agree, i fear that technology is increasingly taking the place of real human interaction...
but surely this problem occurs outside of phoenix! are we really more "disconnected" than anywhere else?

i don't think other big cities are very different in that respect. (does the average person in chicago NOT wake up, go to work, go home and watch TV? that's ridiculous. the only difference is many more people take the the bus or the train.) people are pushed to be consumers, not citizens. that's america. and what is to be consumed is generally intended for the masses, and ultimately intended to sell other products. and part of the reason poverty is ignored in phoenix, i think, is the obvious fact that many of those in poverty are "illegal" (mexican) immigrants. though i'd like to meet an "american", anyone aside from a native american that ISN'T at least the offspring of an "illegal" immigrant . urban sprawl development and the suburbs contribute to the problem as well, spreading out the city to isolate and ignore it.

true, phoenix is lacking the history, tradition, and culture of many big cities. but people forget that arizona was the last continental state to become one! (1912 i believe). yep, yer all standin' on the ruins of the ol' west! (if only that was "cool" enough!) the sonoran desert (phoenix included) is also home to the most diverse eco-system of plant and animal life in the northern hemisphere! second in the world only to the south american rainforest! ok i'm a nerd. (see URBAN SPRAWL to find out why it's rapidly vanishing)

people also forget that relatively, it's a pretty "new" city. at last check, maricopa county was the fastest growing county in the u.s! and a city of transplants, liberal and conservative. surprisingly to some, we were one of the first few states to give women the right to vote and own land (the only state to put it into our original state constitution!) we also have a democrat as a governor (a female), and from what i've read, democrats are expected to re-take majority in the state house after the next local election. tempe had (and re-elected) one of the only openly gay mayors in the u.s! (neil guiliano). arizona voters also passed a proposition allowing the use of medicinal marijuana (twice!) our own first fridays attracts several thousand every month, and several times over 10,000, becoming a nationally recognized event! we also lead the nation in per-capita auto and identity theft! ha!
maybe we're not as "lame" or conservative as we think. perhaps younger folks just don't vote here (how many of y'all did?) or come to shows they have no clue even exist! (or lock their cars or social security cards up, apparently) and perhaps it's just easier to complain.

technology, nor conservative, "football-loving" phoenicians, nor "political apathy" are to blame for people not showing up to shows so much as in some other cities... just because there aren't "enough" political posts on the shizz doesn't mean people don't care about politics here... i've seen some exciting things happen here lately, but you wouldn't know, you don't even live here! mr. m, you've got to do better than that!
and please elaborate on the "emotional detachment" of phoenix! you're a psychologist too?

honestly, this town has always been good to me, whether i've played in front of 2 or 200 people... and the larger turnouts usually had the most to do with REALLY promoting the shows (not everyone checks the shizz!) promotion isn't a cure-all, i know this town is lacking...
all we can do is keep trying, and it seems to me you can't have it both ways... if TOO many people show up/like something, then it's not "cool" anymore, right? (that's the feeling i've gotten from some folks over the years anyway). i wonder if EVERYONE complaining (in bands and local music fans) would actually WANT half these other folks at their shows.
realistically, monday night football guy would most likely get snickered at if he showed up... as i most likely would (and have!) if i hit up the stadium to watch an az football team lose. (though i'd say the football fans at the game were generally much more inviting to outsiders with similar interests than some folks at some of the shows i've been to.)
i can easily say, as a musician who's played shows out here for nearly 10 years (since my early teens, the dirt bike kids, loud americans, etc.), the phoenix music scene is much more "clicky" than most people want to admit (myself included). and so is the walgreens around the corner (and NYC, Chicago, L.A., Seattle, etc!), but bygod, we're on our way up! i can't say the same for those cities (or walgreens!)... call me a simpleton, but i'd much rather live here and be poked fun at trying to help phoenix grow and improve than be part of the undeniably elitist music machine that is every overrated very large city, usa... where you can't make near as much of a difference. we have an opportunity to do something great here. we can have a great music town, without the pretention of an L.A. or other "big" music cities. IF we can brush off our detractors and have a little goddamn dignity! otherwise it's a self-fulfilling prophecy!
(and dick, you can't tear phoenix a new asshole, all the while saying that we're basically too hard on ourselves!!!)

frankly, as a native, it always ruffles my feathers a bit to hear folks who've CHOSEN to move HERE bitch about it.
if you don't like it, do something about it! (many thanks to the many who do! many times for nothing! i.e. the kimbers, leslies, charlies, wills, jrc's, jeremiahs and many others of the valley)
or do what vitaminardi did... move!
that way there will be less pollution and shorter lines at the taco shops for the rest of us...
as you bitch about phoenix from your new home.