107 replies to this topic

[Colin]

I agree that it's all about the choices you make. There are plenty of people I work with who choose bigger houses in the burbs and drive to work (wealthy people) or drive to a commuter rail and take that in. Personally I'd much rather take the T and read than sit in traffic, so I in turn pay a lot more for my housing costs. It's 100% my choice though. Rather than bitch about it when they increase the fares, I just compare it to the amount of money and anguish I would pump into my car and deal with it.

[aaronburke]

hey! I COULD take the bus out here. that transit time is 1 hour 15 minutes. these people that don't have jobs, heh. They can take a bus way out here also. what makes them any different than me?

I would take a bus if I didn't have a car. I would also be hella rich at that point. sprawl and these crazy fuel prices are designed to keep hard working americans poor! how do I not have any room to bitch?

why do we drive? because TIME is a precious commodity.

right. but traffic makes commuting take more TIME.
to get rid of traffic, it might make sense to make a
more public way of commuting. buses are good but
are also part of traffic. a subway, light rail, or any
other system that is NOT part of the regular road
system is a great solution.

[mothrock]

Seattle/Tacoma--it has stayed the same there for the past ten years.

that's because they haven't paved the roads in the past 10 years. It sucked then, and it sucks now.

And for the sake of john's tone. Build UP not OUT, that's the only viable solution.

[mothrock]

arrgh!

why can't I just have a car?!?!?

what's wrong with that?

[unluckycharm]

a) musicians worried about tone should all become laptopists

b ) an alternative fuel source is sorely needed ..... why why why has our government been ignoring this for the past um, 50 years? i guess that's totally a different topic.

[Tortheviking]

im siding with whoever mentioned the monorail.

but im sure our seniors will make a good decision.

[mothrock]

a) musicians worried about tone should all become laptopists

b ) an alternative fuel source is sorely needed ..... why why why has our government been ignoring this for the past um, 50 years? i guess that's totally a different topic.

no, it's the same topic.

[transonic]

Alternative fuel sources are available. The problem is the huge infrastructure that has been created in this country for gas bruning vehicles. If there were electric charging stations everywhere there were gas stations--we could easily reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Hydrogen is also another viable alternative, or even bio-diesel--diesel made from used cooking oil that you find in the grease traps of McDonald's. But until the infrastructure for these alternative fuels matches that of the gas industry--Americans won't find it convenient enough to switch.

[mikemfer]

You know, here's something else to consider. Let's say the average car payment is $300 a month and the average insurance bill is $100 monthly. Add a $150 annual vehicle registration fee and another $30 for emissions, and you are averaging about $415 a month just to own a car. Even if you drive 1200 miles a month at 20 miles for each $2 gallon of gasoline, that's only another $120 a month for gas. So only $120 of your monthly $535 vehicle expenditure is for gas, or less than one-quarter of the expense.

If I want to use public transportation, I can. Buses literally run 50 feet from my bedroom, on Kyrene Road. But what's my incentive? I own a car, I pay for insurance. A little gas to get around isn't the problem. I've thought of selling my car because I only live 3 miles from work. But then I realize I'd have to bum rides to buy groceries or anything heavy, and I'd have to ride my bike to work in the rain once in awhile and then change into something dry and presentable in the bathroom, or bum rides to shows because the bus doesn't run late enough, or a lot of other inconvenient things.

So even if there was light rail and it worked for me, why not just drive? I've already paid the vast majority of the cost out, and I can choose my own music and air temperature in my car. When you have a car sitting in your garage, the only realistic reason to use public transportation, other than being one of the 1/10th of 1 percent of the people in our society who consider the environment their personal responsibility, is that it saves time. Would that really be the case here in Phoenix?

[mikemfer]

Alternative fuel sources are available. The problem is the huge infrastructure that has been created in this country for gas bruning vehicles. If there were electric charging stations everywhere there were gas stations--we could easily reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Hydrogen is also another viable alternative, or even bio-diesel--diesel made from used cooking oil that you find in the grease traps of McDonald's. But until the infrastructure for these alternative fuels matches that of the gas industry--Americans won't find it convenient enough to switch.

Or until the cost is significantly lower...

[chadk]

Alternative fuel sources are available. The problem is the huge infrastructure that has been created in this country for gas bruning vehicles. If there were electric charging stations everywhere there were gas stations--we could easily reduce our dependence on fossil fuels. Hydrogen is also another viable alternative, or even bio-diesel--diesel made from used cooking oil that you find in the grease traps of McDonald's. But until the infrastructure for these alternative fuels matches that of the gas industry--Americans won't find it convenient enough to switch.

great statement transonic,

the infrastructure being the business of oil and auto sales right?

americans love their cars,

but how many of these people are willing to give up the power of their hemi or the comfort of a car in an SUV?

people want to be reflected by what they drive.

say we change all the cars to hydrogen runnig moters how many americans will be out of work?

do we re-educate them to work on hydro/vegtable oil cars?

how much money is that going to take?


is the fact that cars are made by outsourcing more and more a factor?

(broad generalization) is war easier then all our alternatives to achieve personal espression and independent transit?

your thoughts?

[unluckycharm]

americans love their cars,

but how many of these people are willing to give up the power of their hemi or the comfort of a car in an SUV?

I did. Traded in a V8 Mustang for a 4cylinder Truck.

[mothrock]

POINT A TO POINT B. for a reasonable amount of money(not 25-30% of my income.) , that is all I need. if hydrogen cars can provide me with that, fine. electric, fine.

where can I get a hydro or electric car for 10k-15k ?

AWESOME!

[thebiggameover]

i forgot who said "up and not out" but thats what this city needs to focus on. nobody want the lightrail because they live 20 fucking miles from where they work, and the light rail wont work for them. its like you MUST own a car in this city to even survive here. i'm voting for 400 in hopes that maybe people will stop trying to get away from the city, and start trying to live in it. its really not that bad. i more afraid of some rich kid in a suped-up honda going 200mph down the 101 than i am of a homless guy with a bad smell on the bus...


maybe people dont like the light rail because the "poor" people will have an eazy-er way to get to your house to rob it....