107 replies to this topic

[SomethingElse]

i drive a little elecric hybrid and the blue book on my car is, unfortunately, well under 15 k.

not that i would ever sell it. but mothrock, if you were serious, you can definitely find a used hybrid for around 10 to 15k.

i get around 55 mpg and i look cool.
ok, not really.

[mothrock]

unfortunately, I am not in the market for used car for 15K$

who is?

[SomethingElse]

i guess that's a reasonable question...but it's a really cool used car for 15k. how bout them apples?

you pay more for things like electric cars - until they become more mundane. if more people start buying them, the price will come down.

[mothrock]

isn't that weird how electric cars are the exact opposite of everything you've ever learned about supply and demand?

[aaronburke]

isn't that weird how electric cars are the exact opposite of everything you've ever learned about supply and demand?

it's not weird at all, that's how supply
and demand has been defined. new technology
always equals higher prices until it becomes the
norm and widespread.

[mothrock]

eh, the technology IS here.

they've had electric cars since the 70's , no?

there just isn't a price incentive for average Joe to go electric. Which would fit into supply and demand if there is a large supply of electric cars, and little to no demand, they lower the price. As electric cars become more normal, the price would stabilize.

I don't know. My community college education is no match for most of you folks, but that is the way I remember it.

[aaronburke]

there isn't a large supply of electric cars. some
models have as much as a one year waiting list.

[SomethingElse]

what do you mean, no price incentive to go electric? my car might have cost me more than a civic, or a sentra, but the advantages are far greater! i'm not going to make this thread an "electric cars rule so go out and by one" thread, but i'm just gonna say this. sure electric cars are a little more expensive, but consider this - they emit almost zero emissions! that, in itself, is a beautiful thing.

ok, seriously, i'm done. aaron, got anything to say about the big debate?

[transonic]

The idea for alternative fuels is to make the switch so we can continue to live our lifestyle of convenience but not damage the environment or depend on energy sources that cause us to deal with countries that don't like us.

Until taking public transportation is cheap and convenient, the majority of the public won't be interested in taking it.

It will take the price of gas going ever higher to turn people off gasoline.

For years and years in Phoenix--mid seventies until mid nineties--every freeway and public transportation bill was defeated by the people's vote. Those people were mainly made up of retirees and ultra conservatives who believed they should not have to pay for services they did not use. Retirees used this same argument to vote against bills that would increase taxes to fund education. Their argument was--we don't use schools, why should we have to pay for them. This short-sighted point of view has lead us to the debate we're having today. I remember when Deck Park Tunnel opened--it was the last section of I-10 to be constructed in the USA. That's how behind the times Phoenix was. Just over ten years later and we're now the fifth largest city in the US and we are still behind the cities that are of similar size: Houston #4, Philadelphia #6. If we tackle our problems in a preventive, progressive manner, it is better than waiting until there is a crisis to catch-up. I didn't want my tax money going to the construction of Bank One Ball Park--I didn't think I would ever set foot in it. But now I go with my mom and it has become a nice way to deepen our relationship.

So, I guess I am saying the Light Rail will increase the quality of life of the residents of Phoenix--whether it removes cars from the road, makes the air a little cleaner, or allows someone to get to work without having to own a car--it is good for the community and you never know when you may use it yourself. Our tax money goes to a lot of things that we would not pay for ourselves, but the people demand the government should provide us with a vast menu of services from transportation, to education, to health care, etc. We use the ones that are valuable to us and put up with the ones that are not valuable to us. We can always raise our voices for or against something and try to get similar people organized about it in order to make a difference. Or you just stay apathetic and complain when it takes a bite out of your pocketbook.

[aaronburke]

The idea for alternative fuels is to make the switch so we can continue to live our lifestyle of convenience but not damage the environment or depend on energy sources that cause us to deal with countries that don't like us.

the 1st part of this is right, but the 2nd is not true...
most of the reason is to lower damage to the environment
and also not deplete the world's finite supply of fossil fuels.
in reality the US loves dealing with countries that 'don't like
us', these oil laden countries are rich if you consider their
fossil fuel supplies alone.

[transonic]

Came home to find pro and con literature on prop 400. The pro rhetoric says it will not increase taxes. I didn't read the anti 400 mail. I got one pro and four anti mailings.

The fact that Fife Symington is one of the main foes of prop 400 makes me want to vote for it. Everything he has been involved in has snakebitten this state.

[Colin]

So even if there was light rail and it worked for me, why not just drive?

Obviously my situation is a little different, but I can give you some reasons why I use public transportation. I own a car. If I drive to work it takes me slightly less time to get there than if I take the T. I've driven in to the office before (actually I have to tomorrow) when I have to use my car to get to a client and I didn't care for it. Here are my reasons:

-Parking is really fucking expensive. We don't have sprawl here in Boston and I work downtown. The daily rates are about $30. I have no idea what the monthly rates are, but I could never justify the expense even if I wanted to drive. There is a series of unpaved lots that people call the "mudlots" that are $7 a day, but a solid 10-15 minute walk from the office. The subway pass I get is $44/month for unlimited rides.
-On the T I can devote my full concentration to whatever I want. I read the paper in the morning and other times I read a book, listen to music, do a crossword, play a gameboy, organize my life, or any number of other tasks that either aren't possible or aren't safe in a car.
-I can go out anywhere in the city after work and not have to worry about parking, how to get there, or traffic.
-I am one of those people that likes to do my part to help the environment. There's certainly a lot more I can do that I don't, but this seems like a small sacrifice to make.
-Car accidents suck.
-This isn't a big reason, but I actually like to periodically mix in with the public and do some people watching. The view from my car is boring.
-I'm really imaptient and hate waiting for traffic lights and congestion.
-My car does the job, but isn't exactly a dream ride. The manual transmission kinda sucks in traffic and my stereo is a piece of crap.

I think that's enough. They may not all apply to you, but there are reasons to prefer to ride than drive.